Brittania superheater

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Brittania superheater

This topic has 28 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 12 June 2017 at 21:35 by Boiler Bri.

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3 May 2016 at 20:16 #237398
Boiler Bri
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@boilerbri
5" kit built brittania

I have taken the boiler out of the frames and stripped it to make a repair at the foundation ring.

The tube that feeds the regulator from the steam dome is about 10 mm diameter but the bore of the tube is only 4 mm. Is this large enough? I have not steamed the engine as I bought it in bits and I am currently rebuilding it so I do not know how it ran?

Bri
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3 May 2016 at 20:16 #24526
Boiler Bri
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@boilerbri
8 May 2016 at 19:05 #237968
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
A after pressurising the boiler the foundation ring has a leak.

I did all the cleaning necessary to enable me to re silver solder the joint, I even cut a small groove with my Dremel so I can fill it with solder.

I have done lots of silver soldering and never had a problem before? I could not get the solder to flow. It was as if the flux had burnt off but yet the solder area was still clean!

This is the flux I use and 630 to 650 solder.

Can flux age and become no use?
8 May 2016 at 19:25 #237971
John Baguley
Participant
@johnbaguley78655
Hi Bri,

I would think that the 4mm bore to feed the regulator is far too small for a 5" loco. I use larger than that for a 2½" gauge!

Is your problem with silver soldering the leak on the foundation ring simply due to a lack of heat? You're going to need a hell of a lot of heat to get it hot enough. Are you using a propane torch or do you have oxy acetylene or similar?

John

Edited By John Baguley on 08/05/2016 19:26:39
8 May 2016 at 19:45 #237973
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
Hi John, no problem with heat. I have propane and oxyacetylene if I need it. The old joint solder would melt but just not run. It really has me baffled.

The 4mm tube has been changed to 6mm so it should be better for that.

Bri
9 May 2016 at 00:47 #237996
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
Hi Brian,

John is absolutely correct on the regulator bore.

You are using the wrong flux for a start, and expecting the old solder to re-melt is completely the wrong way to go about this sort of repair.

Cheers,

Julian
9 May 2016 at 06:55 #238001
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
I am not using the old solder from the joint. That was merely a reference to what was going on. I am trying to fill the joint up with new solder. I have used the flux shown with no problem before on new jobs but on this repair the flux is no good. Which brand should I use?

Bri
9 May 2016 at 12:31 #238051
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
Hi Brian,

You ought to use J-M Tenacity 4A, or Thessco F, or the CupAlloy's equivalent for boiler work.

I dont want to disappoint you but certain of the Modelworks/Winson boilers (the Black 5 for example) are well known for bad foundation ring joints, and I have not heard of a repair attempt being successful, and in each case a new boiler was required.

I have not heard of these problems with the Modelworks/Winson Brit boilers till reading your post.

Cheers,

Julian
9 May 2016 at 21:39 #238119
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
Hi thank you for the replies and advice.

The foundation ring would be the last item to be fitted, I think? I might cut it right out and fit a new one. Hoping that was the case and the solder used was the lowest melting point stuff? First I am going to try another repair but if it does not work I might be left with no choice but to try and cut it out and replace it. The joints look so close that there was no room for the solder to capilitate into the joint, or maybe it was Friday when the guy who made it thought he would sooner be going to the pub and rushed it?

Bri.
9 May 2016 at 23:40 #238133
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
Hi Brian,

Foundation ring repairs are perhaps the most awkward and problematic, even in the hands of experts. It is not something I would attempt myself. Perhaps take the boiler down to Helen at Western Steam? I personally would not muck about with a major heat up to deal with a foundation joint problem with the risk of upsetting other joints plus localised heating causing cracks, and best left in the hands of the experts such as Helen.

Chers,

Julian
22 May 2016 at 20:52 #239805
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
I think I have to accept that the boiler is going to be replaced. Before I go down that road does anyone know what happened to the two companies that made Britannias in 5" guage after they had gone into receivership ? One was Winson and the other Modelworks?

Any help would be appreciated. Brian
22 May 2016 at 22:08 #239817
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
Hi Brian,

Not quite sure what your point is re Winsons/Modelworks. They both went bust.

Cheers,

Julian
23 May 2016 at 10:16 #239869
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
Someone somewhere will have the intelectual rights to the company-s. i just wondered if a company had bought them?

If i know who they are i could possibly get the boiler flange patterns?

Bri

Edited By Boiler Bri on 23/05/2016 10:16:44
23 May 2016 at 12:16 #239879
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
Why not get a set of flanged plates or boiler kit and the drawings from Blackgates for the Perrier/Spink Brit?

Winsons based their Brit on the above design.

Cheers,

Julian
23 May 2016 at 13:34 #239885
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
If you're scrapping the original boiler consider converting it to drive stationary engines. I've seen this done with an ex Speedy boiler, carefully cut through the barrel (and tubes) where it joins the firebox, make up and silver solder in place a new plate similar to existing smokebox plate. You have to work out provision for water gauges etc. Then have casing with a gas burner underneath and the exhaust going through the tubes.
23 May 2016 at 20:09 #239939
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
It weighs 26kg. So I think it will be going to the scrap man.

Bri
24 August 2016 at 06:39 #252051
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
So after a lot of heartache i have scrapped the boiler.

The good bit is that i now have a John Ellis built replacement. This has been bought from The engineers emporium after a visit to there workshops. The boiler is brand new, and has never been used.

On the paperwork it says it has been made to the Perrier/Spink design? Can anyone throw any light on this?

Brian
24 August 2016 at 08:23 #252053
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Boiler Bri on 24/08/2016 06:39:41:

On the paperwork it says it has been made to the Perrier/Spink design? Can anyone throw any light on this?

.

It's probably only certificated for use with expensive bottled water

… But serously: Perrier and Spink get a mention here

http://www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/3346/

MichaelG.
24 August 2016 at 14:06 #252085
nigel jones 5
Participant
@nigeljones5
Bri

Has the old boiler been destroyed yet – I would actually relish the challenge of repairing it. I have yet to come across one I couldn't repair (I had to cut one straight through the barrel and re-join to access the leak).
24 August 2016 at 19:23 #252104
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
No I still have it. Your welcome to try. Let's get the bank holiday over with and then I could drop it off. I have to go to Blackpool on business so I could swing by you.
24 August 2016 at 19:25 #252105
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
I also need a bit of help with the frames. On the Brittania builder website the frames have a long plate that bolts between the frames above the horns. I would like to add this to mine but I have no dimensions. Can anyone help with that?
24 August 2016 at 20:08 #252110
Mark P.
Participant
@markp
Brian,if by the long plate between the frames having built a quite few Winson Brits I would leave it out, as you will have access problems for some of the plumbing. Just my thoughts.

Regards Mark P.
26 August 2016 at 07:46 #252301
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
Good thought. It is a bit tight anyway.

Cheers
18 March 2017 at 16:42 #289390
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
It's taken me some time due to life but the boiler in on the frames and all the cladding is fitted remade altered etc. So all the new pipework that I had fitted to the original boiler is to modify and change where needed.

Looking at the dummy pipework Doug Hewson made parts for these to enhance the looks. He sold the business to someone but I do not know who. Any help here would be appreciated.

Brian
18 March 2017 at 18:27 #289398
V8Eng
Participant
@v8eng
Posted by Boiler Bri on 18/03/2017 16:42:54:

It's taken me some time due to life but the boiler in on the frames and all the cladding is fitted remade altered etc. So all the new pipework that I had fitted to the original boiler is to modify and change where needed.

Looking at the dummy pipework Doug Hewson made parts for these to enhance the looks. He sold the business to someone but I do not know who. Any help here would be appreciated.

Brian

I have just seen an advert linking Doug Hewson to: The Steam Workshop. http://www.steamworkshop.co.uk

The advert says " The Steam Workshop Now incorporating D.Hewson Models.

It is also reported that he is recovering from a Stroke (ME 4556 Smoke rings), best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.

Edited By V8Eng on 18/03/2017 18:28:08

Edited By V8Eng on 18/03/2017 18:40:43
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