Steel spec

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Steel spec

This topic has 16 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 1 August 2015 at 21:37 by Neil Wyatt.

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30 July 2015 at 20:39 #198525
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
Can one of the suppliers out there explain why they are so reluctant to tell us what grade of steel they are selling? I've just bought some described as GCQ, which seems to mean 'good commercial quality'. I asked a proper steel stockholder, and he reckoned it meant 'I've lost the certificate'. Presumably model engineering suppliers buy in quantity from stockholders, and in my experience a reputable stockholder will always give you a certificate, most of them whether you want it or not, it's part of their QA procedures.
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30 July 2015 at 20:39 #24009
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
30 July 2015 at 21:03 #198528
Neil Wyatt
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@neilwyatt
In the last year or so I have used M-machine, College Engineering, my local stockholder and Metals Supermarket, all of whom have been able to give me graded materials. I know Noggin End also supply to spec. The hobby-specific stockholders are particularly good for small quantities and specialist materials.

All of these are specialist metals suppliers.

Neil
30 July 2015 at 21:17 #198531
John Rudd
Participant
@johnrudd16576
Posted by duncan webster on 30/07/2015 20:39:47: a reputable stockholder will always give you a certificate, most of them whether you want it or not, it's part of their QA procedures.

And so they should, as part of their ISO creditation
30 July 2015 at 23:37 #198545
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Posted by John Rudd on 30/07/2015 21:17:36:

Posted by duncan webster on 30/07/2015 20:39:47: a reputable stockholder will always give you a certificate, most of them whether you want it or not, it's part of their QA procedures.

And so they should, as part of their ISO creditation

No.

Imagine just how many tonnes of material they shift per day and it's not a full load to one customer. Now imagine if they had to supply paperwork to 90% of customers who are more interested in delivery and price and bot some spurious BS number that have no idea what it means.

OK there will be some customers who need this certification but the supplier I use if you want certs you pay for them. It's not a free service.

Most of my stuff is GCQ which usually is EN3B. If I want EN8 I get EN8 and it colour coded. If I need a cert I have to tell them at time of ordering and it's issued. It has to be like this as not only is the bar certified but where it comes from, where it was stored in the warehouse, who picked it, who delivered it is all on there.

I have to pay for the cert but I expect this – no one – only model engineers work for nothing.
31 July 2015 at 03:59 #198556
Bill Pudney
Participant
@billpudney37759
The cert. also used to specify when and where the material was made, the melt that it was part of and the chemical analysis. THAT's why there is a cost involved.

cheers

Bill
31 July 2015 at 09:58 #198575
Mark C
Participant
@markc
Amazing! The QA people will soon be in our tiny workshops were the HSE failed…….

Mark
31 July 2015 at 10:24 #198581
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Posted by Mark C on 31/07/2015 09:58:53:

Amazing! The QA people will soon be in our tiny workshops were the HSE failed…….

Mark

.

No really, it's only people worrying over something that is not necessary.

In a year I buy literally tonnes of steel in, OK low tonnes but still a lot for a shop my size. I hardly ever buy in cut lengths unless of a high grade and size. A 4" bar of EN24T does get quite expensive.

The biggest majority is GCQ and some higher grades like EN8, EN16T, EN24T and the occasional lump of EN39

None of it comes with a test cert, it's colour coded, I mark it up as well and it's stored away from the GCQ.

Seeing as nothing I do is life critical and needs a trace, why do I need a cert and if I don't working at a higher level than the home shop guy, then why do they ?

Answer is , they don't. Nothing to see here, move on.
31 July 2015 at 11:06 #198584
richardandtracy
Participant
@richardandtracy
The company I work for makes boxes, mostly aluminium, but there are about 20 off 5 tonne net boxes a year are from steel. Stockists are so careless about grades that we now refuse to take it off the truck unless the CofC and mill certs are in order – this leads to 50% of trucks being sent back with the steel still loaded on the back. We have had occasions in the past when we made boxes to go to cold areas requiring -20C capable steel, and got the paperwork after making the box – finding it was stuff that was of a lower strength grade and went brittle at 0C. Fur flew then, I can tell you.

Regards,

Richard.
31 July 2015 at 13:54 #198605
Mark C
Participant
@markc
Richard, John is right about hobby shop use.

The circumstance for your company (also John and I) is different to your average model engineer who just needs something that will machine or weld OK. For ISO QA companies and for CE cert. you do need to have traceability (especially if it is automotive) but again John is bang on about having to pay for them – I recently had some sheet material that was rolled CR4 and they gave me the copy of the CofC (certificate of conformity – the thickness specification/tolerance) but I had to pay for a material certificate at an independent test house.

I would suggest that you have to be careful with colour codes as (and I stand to be corrected here) they do not have to use a standard coding system.

Mark
31 July 2015 at 19:52 #198647
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
I'm not asking for a copy of the cert, just tell me in the advert is it EN1, EN1a En3 etc. This costs nothing. GCQ is meaningless.
31 July 2015 at 20:01 #198650
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by duncan webster on 31/07/2015 19:52:20:

I'm not asking for a copy of the cert, just tell me in the advert is it EN1, EN1a En3 etc. This costs nothing. GCQ is meaningless.

.

They probably don't know … and almost certainly couldn't prove it.

GCQ is a very appropriate "downgrade" for the unknown.

Simple fact: Traceability and Certification cost money.

MichaelG.
31 July 2015 at 20:08 #198652
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
As does advertising space, so you can't expect them to put too much on the page. If you want something specific then ask them.
31 July 2015 at 20:27 #198655
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Did LBSC ever suffer from such trivia ??
31 July 2015 at 20:42 #198657
Frances IoM
Participant
@francesiom58905
“I would suggest that you have to be careful with colour codes as (and I stand to be corrected here) they do not have to use a standard coding system.”
my local metal supplier was kind enough to print out a chart of their own colour code (often over painted on the suppliers own code I presume for the same reason of different standards) – very useful for many of the small endpieces I’m allowed to scavenge from the waste bins are painted
1 August 2015 at 21:14 #198783
richardandtracy
Participant
@richardandtracy
Posted by John Stevenson on 31/07/2015 20:27:29:

Did LBSC ever suffer from such trivia ??

Probably not. But he did live in a time when Esperanto was invented on the spot and the bureaucrat did not rule the earth.

Regards,

Richard
1 August 2015 at 21:37 #198790
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by Frances IoM on 31/07/2015 20:42:58:
"I would suggest that you have to be careful with colour codes as (and I stand to be corrected here) they do not have to use a standard coding system."
my local metal supplier was kind enough to print out a chart of their own colour code (often over painted on the suppliers own code I presume for the same reason of different standards) – very useful for many of the small endpieces I'm allowed to scavenge from the waste bins are painted

I've been caught that way. "I want a bit of that" (points at painted offcut) "If you want a bit of that you don't want hat you want this!"

Neil
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