Warco WM16

Warco WM16

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  • #17986
    MW
    Participant
      @mw27036
      #223418
      MW
      Participant
        @mw27036

        Now, to be honest this is a pretty good machine, by that, i mean it has done to date everything that i've asked it to do.

        Despite this, i'm now fairly dissapointed in it, and can see every reason why i might've held out for a 2nd hand english mill (theres no way i could afford a refurbished one)

        Its got nothing to do with the length of the table or the power of the motor or even the number of tee slots. What warco tells you, it will thus have and it performs very well on demonstrations i would imagine.

        It's more to do with cutting corners if anything and poor design as to why i'm dissapointed in it, i recently noticed that the RPM was wobbling up and down on the back gear mode and thought i might open it up to look at the gear box inside, i got about as far as removing the motor and removing a couple of gears and circlips to find that the access into the gear box is blocked by a bearing that cant be gripped or pushed out from the other side, the only way to access it is to remove the entire head from the machine and redial the head.

        I looked in the oil port though and saw that one of the plastic gears for the back gear had seemingly worn completely away the teeth, this seems like it was inevitably going to happen and i cant see why they would do that.

        Its no big shame, i can still use the mill but only in high speed mode and goodness knows how long thats going to last? I cant see how they would know how to build these machines and yet overlook such a common long term issue that isn't caused by machine abuse. I think i've been had.

        Now i'm pretty sure i wouldn't consider replacing it, i would if i had the money, but i'm going to have to put up with it. So yeah, the new might look shiny but it's not for long.

        #223425
        Anonymous

          You're moaning to the wrong people, it all boils down to you get what you pay for that most people on here can personally relate to.

          #223439
          Chris Evans 6
          Participant
            @chrisevans6

            I have a Bridgeport turret mill but space and budget are a whole different story. I think that for the money a lot of the hobby mills produce some nice work.

            #223440
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              They also often put in a part that will fail easily before you do more extensive damage to a load of metal gears, think of it as a safety device like a shear pin in a leadscrew.

              You say your niggles are to do with corner cutting and also say you can't afford an English Machine, had they not cut corners then you probably would not have been able to afford the WM16 either. Same would apply to many people who would still be faffing about with vertical slides like MEs before us who could not afford mills before the far eastern ones brought them into a more affordable price bracket.

              J

              Edited By JasonB on 01/02/2016 07:53:58

              #223441
              Ian Parkin
              Participant
                @ianparkin39383

                I have a WM18 size machine and all in all I'm very happy with it…its work envelope is great for its size and weight

                My gear only lasted 4 weeks and after stripping it out it was because the speed change levers detents only put the gear half in mesh with its steel counterpart…after modifying that and a new gear alls been well since ( 3 years… but then done away with see below)

                Modifications I've done

                Motor drive to Z axis

                3 axis dro

                power drive to X

                tramming screws on head to hold head at 0 degrees

                oiling system to screws

                replaced motor with induction motor and VFD now 1.5kw

                get rid of gearbox and fit htd belt drive

                machines runs so much better and almost silently from 40rpm to 2000rpm and no vibration

                I'm limited in the weight of machine I can get in my workshop ( down 13 steps) but it does everything I can imagine.

                #223446
                mechman48
                Participant
                  @mechman48

                  Ian

                  I have a WM 16 … very similar machine, & interested in how you have…

                  Fitted oiling system to screws

                  Fitted belt drive

                  Motor drive to Z axis

                  Have got similar fitted re. the other items ( 2 axis DRO, X drive, Tramming screws )

                  Would appreciate pics / drawings

                  George

                  #223458
                  Ian Parkin
                  Participant
                    @ianparkin39383

                    George

                    the oiling system is a pump from arc some pipe a 3 way connector and fittings into each nut…the pipes are a bit of a pain to route so they dont get trapped on the travelling of the ways

                    dsc00859 (large).jpg

                     

                    The Z drive is a small parverlux 24 dc geared motor from ebay theres a seller who does loads of these

                    Its mounted via a coupling to where the handle fitted and controlled by a switch mounted on the side of the control box

                    dsc00854 (large).jpg

                     

                    The motor and belt drive is here its a 1440 rpm 1.5kw 3 phase motor with a 35 tooth 15mm wide 5 mm pitch htd belt and the pulley on the spindle is a 72 tooth

                    the gearbox is removed completely

                    the tacho drive is relocated to between the 2 gears left on the spindle

                    dsc00855 (large).jpg

                    dsc00856 (large).jpg

                    dsc00858 (large).jpg

                     

                    Guard removed for photo held on with the screws visible in front of the front  pulley

                    Edited By Ian Parkin on 01/02/2016 10:44:55

                    #223472
                    MW
                    Participant
                      @mw27036

                      I've noticed quite a few people have mentioned the plastic back gear stripping out very quickly and i cant see how thats deemed a practical solution when it simply breaks, i'm left with no choice but to put it back together and run on the high speed gearing until i can take the whole unit down and make a brass replacement or something.

                      #223475
                      Anonymous
                        Posted by JasonB on 01/02/2016 07:50:59:

                        They also often put in a part that will fail easily before you do more extensive damage to a load of metal gears, think of it as a safety device like a shear pin in a leadscrew.

                        It's far more likely to be a matter of production cost. It must be cheaper to knock out injection moulded gears than hob metal gears.

                        I would expect a gear train to be able to cope with the forces applied by a stalled motor without damage. That is true of my lathe and mill as I have stalled both by being over-ambitious. Of course none of the above applies for shock loads, like running the lathe tool into the chuck; then you're likely to lose some gear teeth. And possibly some of your own if it doesn't happen to be your machine tool.

                        #223478
                        mechman48
                        Participant
                          @mechman48

                          Thanks Ian; much appreciate your quick response, will keep your post for future ref. for annual o/haul ( 1st time ) later this year.

                          George.

                          Edited By mechman48 on 01/02/2016 12:32:40

                          #223482
                          MW
                          Participant
                            @mw27036

                            "then you're likely to lose some gear teeth. And possibly some of your own if it doesn't happen to be your machine tool.-"

                            lol

                            i marked someones mill table once when counter sinking these ally tubes. the depth wasnt correctly set on the stop but he insisted that i wasnt applying enough pressure, i wasnt in a place to disagree with him 😛

                            #223503
                            MW
                            Participant
                              @mw27036

                              I did take some photos of this messed up gear but they are far too blurry being so dark to be of any worth. Its an extremely lightweight plastic, not like peek or delrin but fairly flimsy feeling. I dont dare mess around with taking the head off and the normal running gear looks to be in good order so i've put the mill back together for now and packed it out with some molislip grease and hope and pray that it'll hold out on normal running mode.

                              Unless it breaks again i'm going to leave it alone and maybe one day i'll take the time to machine a new gear from brass.

                              I'm not saying its a bad machine but it's not the first time i've heard about this problem, i do actually like it other than that. I can seem like victor meldrew sometimes, as can my father before me, but a good old moan and taking it apart has taught me alot more than i used to know about the machine.

                              I'm just gonna grumble a bit as i cut that brass >=( !!!

                              #223533
                              Ian Parkin
                              Participant
                                @ianparkin39383

                                Michael

                                is this the same as your gear?

                                this is how mine wore out as the teeth were not fully in mesh

                                dsc00861 (large).jpg

                                dsc00860 (large).jpg

                                Having said that the one that i have spare which has been in 3 years or so is like new after solving the engagement problem

                                #223538
                                MW
                                Participant
                                  @mw27036

                                  That wear pattern is precisely the same as mine, theres only a little bit at the top left holding it all together, i take it you bought another gear from parts service? it seems as though that the "lifting" mechanism on the side is not seated fully when selected and causes the gear to wear out because its only half engaged. Its promising that after 3 years its still in good order

                                   

                                  P.s. Good grief you've done some hefty work to that machine! 😛

                                  Edited By Michael Walters on 01/02/2016 18:05:59

                                  #223540
                                  Sam Longley 1
                                  Participant
                                    @samlongley1

                                    I am due to get delivery of my M16 next week. Knowing my luck, i am bound to make a mistake. So what advice do you give to prevent your problem. How, for instance, can i check & adjust meshing of the gears

                                    Is it easy to replace? What should I look for when it all arrives. Have I bought a pup?

                                    Any advice please

                                    #223544
                                    Mark Prickett 2
                                    Participant
                                      @markprickett2

                                      Im looking to get a milling machine but unsure now whether to get a new machine and risk all of the above or look for something older and maybe not have all the problems , but maybe a bit more wear etc .

                                      #223546
                                      Mark P.
                                      Participant
                                        @markp

                                        Hi Sam, I’ve had my WM16 for 5 or 6 years and never had any problems with stripping of gears and I do drive it hard!
                                        Mark P.

                                        #223563
                                        Chris Evans 6
                                        Participant
                                          @chrisevans6

                                          Mark P, you are most likely better getting one of these machines than a well worn ex industrial job. Unless you know where the machine is from/condition etc. they can cost a lot to refurbish.

                                          #223593
                                          MW
                                          Participant
                                            @mw27036

                                            I would say as an honest user, I have not pushed this very hard, i generally do roughing cuts of about 0.5mm and this is why its kindof annoyed me, it's potential is very good despite this. It speaks for itself.

                                            The material for the gear is probably ok, as you've heard. a few people have had these for years with no problem, just be careful when switching between high and low gear, they recommend that you dont do this at high speed obviously but i wouldve changed my ways by doing the changes by hand, very similar to the way you would rotate a lathe chuck back and forth slightly to get it to sit in the right gear.

                                            Just remember to be careful to make sure the switch is fully engaged before operating it.

                                            I can still use my stricken one on high speed but i guess you're really counting on luck in the end, i'm not out to badmouth anyones machine.

                                            P.s. i will elaborate slightly on what i said by "changes by hand" -motor off, emergency stop on, twist the spindle back and forth until the engagement switch for high/neutral/low comfortably sits in the right position, thats the best i can advise.

                                            oh and pack some thick grease in the oil port on the side of the machine where the gears sit every once in a while, they should have plenty applied already from the factory but its worth checking with a small torch. 

                                            Michael W 

                                            Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:04:42

                                            Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:05:42

                                            Edited By Michael Walters on 02/02/2016 07:07:20

                                            #223600
                                            Mark P.
                                            Participant
                                              @markp

                                              Chris Evens6 , think you have missread my post, I’ve had oa wm16 for a few years and am pleased with it.

                                              #223601
                                              Ian Parkin
                                              Participant
                                                @ianparkin39383

                                                Mark p

                                                I think Chris Evens6 was referencing Mark p..rickett2

                                                #223605
                                                Chris Evans 6
                                                Participant
                                                  @chrisevans6

                                                  Thanks for the clarification Ian, to many Marks at one time !

                                                  #223625
                                                  mechman48
                                                  Participant
                                                    @mechman48

                                                    Just to clarify; I've had my mill for 3 years now & gave it the eyeball inspection on receipt & all looked fine, I did a few tweaks, gibs, tramming etc. & have run it when needed without any hassle, I have used Hi speed on occasion but as Michael says…

                                                    "changes by hand" -motor off, emergency stop on, twist the spindle back and forth until the engagement switch for high/neutral/low comfortably sits in the right position, thats the best i can advise.

                                                    So far I have not 'wellied' it as far as d.o.c. is concerned, I generally listen to what the motor & cutter are doing when I am cutting so can judge when I've got too much or too little on. As said earlier I plan on giving it it's first annual once over later this year but I am of the old engineering idiom …'if it aint broke don't fix it.

                                                    George.

                                                    #223636
                                                    Ian Parkin
                                                    Participant
                                                      @ianparkin39383

                                                      Just to clarify why my gear broke

                                                      as above i felt the gears into mesh by hand

                                                      the only trouble was that the detent ball on the engagement switch held the gears only half in mesh

                                                      I was doing a job after only having had it 4 weeks and it started hesitating and within minutes had lost all drive

                                                      on stripping down it was apparent what the problem was

                                                      RDG did send me a new gear FOC and listened to my concerns about the crappy assembly of the gear chain

                                                      since fitting new gear and adjusting mesh correctly it was fine

                                                      But the best modification I made is to fit an AC motor and get rid of the gearbox

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