Model engineering beginner: My first build

This topic has 14 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 28 October 2015 at 17:07 by SteveI.

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26 October 2015 at 23:34 #209412
Nick Stock
Participant
@nickstock41220
To anyone who's willing to advise me here,

For about the last 3 years I've been intending to get serious about building my first loco.

Back then I came into position of a full set of darings, gun metal castings from Norman Spinks and frames in 3mm steel for a 5" Simplex by Martin Evans.

However, I was not circumstantially ready to really get going with my build.

I now work in a school as a design technician and have ideal access to the lathes and mill etc.

Forgetting the Simplex for now, which id prefer to shelve because I have had a rethink and have got it in my head that really, a pansy is for me mainly due to the fact it's more prototypical of a loco that actually existed and, given the choice if I'm going to spend the next 3-5 years in fabrication..

I'm aware there are a number of suppliers who can sell me drawings but –

Challenge a) I am aware there are dimensional errors that unless I'm aware of, will melt my brain when further down the build I can't work out why 'one bit doesn't fit in another bit' and when I come to finish the full motion and air test, why 'it don't work right'!

Challenge b) Being only 26 years old and not the sharpest thinking in fractions, and from first hand experience of just trying to get my head around it, what i plan to do is convert as much of the drawings to metric and CAD up all the parts in stages in Creo or solidworks.

So..

Can anyone perhaps advise me on where to get drawings from, what modifications are crucial to the original drawings, what actual features I ought to change or add to address any issues that I'd kick myself for not including in retrospect and anything else you'd recommend perhaps from your own experience of building and/or running this particular loco?

Appreciated, this is a lot to ask potentially.

Look forward to hopefully hearing from someone.

Nick
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26 October 2015 at 23:34 #1464
Nick Stock
Participant
@nickstock41220
Loco of choice: LBSC’s Pansy pannier tank engine
27 October 2015 at 08:35 #209421
Dave Smith 14
Participant
@davesmith14
Nick

I too am just starting out on the journey of building my first engine, in this case Don Young's L & Y Aspinall Class 27. I cannot help you with build errors, but your approach is a logical one and the same as mine. Don's Design are reputedly pretty good, but this particular engine has no build articles, so info on the accuracy of the drawings is sketchy. Hence I am remodelling the loco in metric (where appropriate) and as a 3D model, using in my case CATIA. As well as checking to make sure it goes together, what dimensions are missing etc it gives a really great insight into understanding how it works. I have started with boiler assembly and the picture gives a quick flavour of where I have got to. Good luck with your build.

**LINK**

Dave
27 October 2015 at 08:49 #209425
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
hi nick,

Blackgates and Reeves do the Pansy drawings and castings. i expect Malcolm High can provide lots of laser cut parts.

there are lots of errors on the Pansy drawings, and the boiler drawing hasnt been updated to comply with current boiler regulations. there are also quite a few design errors/defects.

the boiler has a belpaire firebox which is harder to make than a roundtop firebox.

however Simplex is far from perfect! of the 2 designs i think you have made the right choice.

i have sent you a PM so that i can send you details of modifications required to the Pansy valve gear and details of other errors and things to watch out for.

cheers,

julian
27 October 2015 at 09:31 #209428
its-smee
Participant
@its-smee
for my first project I chose to make the " Metro " by Martin Evans. The main reasons being all drawings and castings are available. Before I started i checked i had all relevant copies of M.E. showing the build in detail. Also to have the issues after the build is compete for the "corrections". Another advantage was at the M.E. exhibition are many completed models on display and was able to take many photographs. After spending a lot of time making the double frames ( of dubious quality) i found a company that did laser cutting of frames complete with all hole centres marked. (I still had to do the drilling though )
27 October 2015 at 09:35 #209429
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
alanstepney.info details some of the errors found in locomotive drawings.
27 October 2015 at 20:10 #209504
Nick Stock
Participant
@nickstock41220
Thanks for all your inputs guys which I helped me make up my mind and earlier today I placed my order for a set of Pansy drawings from Blackgates.
27 October 2015 at 20:16 #209506
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
I've seen a few Pansies and they may not be to superfine scale standards, but they are fine looking engines.

Neil
27 October 2015 at 20:53 #209510
Nick Stock
Participant
@nickstock41220
Truth be told, I already think I'm verging on biting off more than I can chew right now but acknowledging that, I appreciate this sort of activity naturally falls in to a hefty course of learning on the job, researching and pre-planning, and when all else fails, hard-core trial and error!

In fact what I'm thinking of doing is to convert as best I can both the simplex and the pansy to metric. I will then do something like the following: choose a mix of manual and cnc machining to suit the accuracy and complexity required of each aspect of the locos, with cash flow ultimately governing how I proceed. Speed ends up being a resultant effect though I'm expecting a start to finish time between 3-5 years.

Who knows, this could actually go to more or less to plan or if I'm not so 'lucky' it will just be a complete and utter disaster. Either way fun times ahead!

Nick
27 October 2015 at 21:52 #209521
SteveI
Participant
@stevei
Hi Nick,

There is a thread over on the modeleng proboards forum about a "speedy" build. Over 4000+ posts and still going strong. The build is a metric conversion of the original design.

Perhaps take a look at the Hewson's website as they have a more prototypical pannier tank design based on the "pansy". Many improvements and the plans are available in digital dwg format. I have a set and they are superb. I won't share them as I have to respect a designer that is offering a design in a modern way. Rather than selling prints known to be full of errors. I only wish other designs were made available digitally. Furthermore there have been a number of the updated more modern boiler design in this model made by individuals and commercial boiler makers. The Hewson's offer items for this design to help you progress it.

Thanks,

Steve
27 October 2015 at 23:59 #209541
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
hi steve,

it is interesting you comment on the Pansy 'redesign' by Doug Hewson. the boiler is pretty much a straight copy of Keith Wilson's Dukedog boiler without any acknowledgment to Keith by Doug.

the biggest departure LBSC made from fullsize of the GWR 57XX pannier tanks was to use a steam chest below the cylinders with rocker arms, instead of the 'valves between' arrangement of valve gear with direct drive.

Doug Hewson has not produced a 'valves between' arrangement but followed the LBSC arrangement. therefore any suggestion that the Doug Hewson version is superior in being more prototypical is fundamentally false.

most of the minor departures from fullsize on the LBSC drawings are in fact covered by him in the original construction series such a cab windows, fish bellied coupling rods etc.

cheers,

julian
28 October 2015 at 06:27 #209544
Stewart Hart
Participant
@stewarthart90345
Nick

The best thing you can do before you embark on this adventure is to join your model engineering club, you will be buying into lots of experience and wisdom, you will almost certainly find that at least one person has built your loco of choice.

Next thing is to chose a design that meets you level of experience, again talk with club members they will guide you with this.

As my first engine I've just completed a Simplex and have had great fun running it through the summer. I bought it as a part finished project, and ended up virtually rebuilding it, You can follow my log here it will give you some idea of what you need to do to build a Simplex.

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,7263.0.html

Hopefully my rebuild may be published in the magazine some time.

Cheers

Stew
28 October 2015 at 08:57 #209554
SteveI
Participant
@stevei
Julian,

You are of course correct about the fact short comings are still present. Perhaps I should have been clearer there are some aspects that are visual improvements to a more prototypical look. E.g. the over sized LBSC boiler is replaced with a smaller boiler design. I acknowledge you know a lot more about this than me. I was simply trying to illustrate the point about their being variations of the pansy design available to a poster new to the hobby.

Steve
28 October 2015 at 13:23 #209584
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by SteveI on 27/10/2015 21:52:39:

I only wish other designs were made available digitally.

Any real progress on this needs people willing to carry out the work to produce a digital version of a design to enter into discussion with the owner of the rights to that design, realising that the returns might not be significant.

I would suggest there is far more potential for new designs produced as digital ones, as the designer, might then make some return from writing up the build.

I'd suggest anyone interested in doing this contacts Diane – I am sure she would consider publishing a design with electronic rather than printed plans.

I'd certainly look at running a tool build series this way.

Neil
28 October 2015 at 17:07 #209613
SteveI
Participant
@stevei
Neil,

Although this discussion is now going off topic, I have noticed a number of articles of late in MEW with drawings that look to have been CAD based. So why are you not making them available?

Steve
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