Covid virus and oil

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

At the start of the pandemic it was stated that soap solution could effectively defeat the virus by spoiling the integrity of the molecules(?)…….

Does anyone know if oil also beaks down the virus?………Does anyone know who would know?………Where might I find this information please?

Thanks for any help!

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Help needed

[Thomas CooksleyParticipant @thomascooksley79020]

As I understand things the soap removes an oily film that protects the virus and helps it enter human cells. Bit of a guess here, adding oil might replace the film or even make the virus stronger.

For a definitive answer try the World Health Organization they might have the answer.

Tom.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well, the US Centre for Disease Control recommended about 20 products capable of killing Coronavirus. None of them are oils and I can't think of a reason why oil would particularly worry a virus.

Things that work: Soap and Water ; Bleach ; 70% Alcohol; > 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide; Phenol. Apart from Soap these are all active chemicals. Oh, and heat – say 40°C.

Things that don't work: Antibiotics; and most Disinfectants, Antiseptics & Germicides.

Much depends on the make up of the virus' skin. Like all living things it has a layer protecting it from the environment. As oil and grease are much used by Mother Nature as protectives, it's unlikely that oil would do much damage, unless the oil was a light solvent. Maybe petrol, naptha, Hexane or Benzene.

No shortage of strong chemicals capable of killing Covid-19, unfortunately most of them are downright dangerous to people too.

Dave

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Stay away from washing your hands in those four products, especially Benzene !

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Roughly speaking it works like this. Virus Capsids are proteins which are chains of amino acids. Some amino acids are hydrophillic and some hydrophobic meaning some are attracted to water and some repelled by water (it's a charge thing). This causes the protein to fold up in a particular way with hydrophobic acids on the inside and hydrophylic on the outside which generally gives rise to the proteins shape and hence function. Proteins usually exist in a near neutral water based environment. Changing the pH of the solution the protein is in can destroy the shape. Soaps are both hydrophylic and hydrophobic so can disrupt the shape of the protein. If the surface of the protein is hydrophylic it will be surrounded with a layer of water molecules.

My take on your question. Adding oil will not neccesarily get to the protein. Stir vigerously and maybe you get a lot of protein particles surrounded by water suspended in oil.

Stick to soap.

regards Martin

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

A longer explanation here, its not just the AA interactions that soap disrupts.:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Basicly it is not an excuse you can give your wife for leaving oily fingerprints around the house

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 03/08/2020 13:30:53:

At the start of the pandemic it was stated that soap solution could effectively defeat the virus by spoiling the integrity of the molecules(?)…….

 

Does anyone know if oil also beaks down the virus?………Does anyone know who would know?………Where might I find this information please?

 

Thanks for any help!

Despite advice from across the pond, don't drink it, dont inject it!

Edited By duncan webster on 03/08/2020 19:30:40

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Human skin exudes its own natural oil but it doesnt seem to be any defence against Covid19 so wouldnt expect other oils to be much different.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Castrol Cooledge used to carry the dead fish and tree symbols (the new stuff doesn't), so used neat may work.

I'm going to stick to soap / water and alcohol hand gel for now

Regards.

David.

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 03/08/2020 14:50:20:

Well, the US Centre for Disease Control recommended about 20 products capable of killing Coronavirus. None of them are oils and I can't think of a reason why oil would particularly worry a virus.

Things that work: Soap and Water ; Bleach ; 70% Alcohol; > 0.5% Hydrogen Peroxide; Phenol. Apart from Soap these are all active chemicals. Oh, and heat – say 40°C.

Things that don't work: Antibiotics; and most Disinfectants, Antiseptics & Germicides.

Much depends on the make up of the virus' skin. Like all living things it has a layer protecting it from the environment. As oil and grease are much used by Mother Nature as protectives, it's unlikely that oil would do much damage, unless the oil was a light solvent. Maybe petrol, naptha, Hexane or Benzene.

No shortage of strong chemicals capable of killing Covid-19, unfortunately most of them are downright dangerous to people too.

Dave

Don't know where you get the idea that disinfectants don't work . They do .

The sanitisers used in catering ( pink liquid spray bottle by the trolleys at your supermarket) have the advantage that they remain effective for 24 hours on hard surfaces. Some washing up liquids have the same 24h residual .

The confusion here is that many sanitisers are not great cleaners but that's not what they are for.

Bleach is a fairly useless cleaner /sanitiser and is actually banned from many companies due to it's danger in use and ineffectiveness. It will take the colour out of detritis but not always remove it , so the breeding ground remains in tact.

What should we do?

keep hands away from the face, wash or sanitise hands regularly especially after contact with the face. Sanitise hard surfaces twice a day with 24h residual product.

[Bill FentmanParticipant @billfentman89150]

Interesting Idea!

All I know is that soap and water does a cracking job.

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Thank you to all responders!…this is excellent as I have been looking for answers for the last several days and it's very difficult to find good info.

Presumably, it ok to wipe tools with a soap solution and then coat with either oil or something like WD40 for storage(?)

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

One factor which is relevant to any answer is – What type of oil? The physical and chemical characteristics can both vary hugely, depending on whether you are looking at cutting oil or cooking oil, olive oil or castor oil, whale oil or EP oil. It is rather like asking 'I need to drill holes in rock – will metal be Ok for this?'

As someone said here recently, we all need to be careful about the various meanings of the words we use.

Cheers, Tim

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 05/08/2020 14:57:50:

Thank you to all responders!…this is excellent as I have been looking for answers for the last several days and it's very difficult to find good info.

Presumably, it ok to wipe tools with a soap solution and then coat with either oil or something like WD40 for storage(?)

Or you could wipe them down with alcohol such as meths.

There is a wealth of covid sanitizing info available on sites such as Centres for Disease Control, NIH and government health departments that go into depth on procedures and materials to be used. Just stick with the reliable sources and ignore the alien DNA crowd.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 05/08/2020 14:57:50:

Thank you to all responders!…this is excellent as I have been looking for answers for the last several days and it's very difficult to find good info.

Presumably, it ok to wipe tools with a soap solution and then coat with either oil or something like WD40 for storage(?)

WD40 is useless for storage, as it's name implies, it's used for water displacement. When it dries out it just leaves a sticky residue.

This is the sort of oil that does work well, I use it in my model engines for a long term layup Air Tool Oil

* Danny M *

[JAParticipant @ja]

Although oil won't kill the virus lubricating grease might since it is an emulsion of oil and soap.

Anyway if left alone the virus is dead after three days. I just frequently wash my hands and fore arms in soap and water and don't disinfect my phone, mobile, lathe etc. I have yet to die.

JA

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Lee Rogers on 05/08/2020 11:22:55:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 03/08/2020 14:50:20:

…

Things that don't work: Antibiotics; and most Disinfectants, Antiseptics & Germicides.

…

Dave

Don't know where you get the idea that disinfectants don't work . They do .

The sanitisers used in catering ( pink liquid spray bottle by the trolleys at your supermarket) have the advantage that they remain effective for 24 hours on hard surfaces. Some washing up liquids have the same 24h residual .

The confusion here is that many sanitisers are not great cleaners but that's not what they are for.

Bleach is a fairly useless cleaner /sanitiser and is actually banned from many companies due to it's danger in use and ineffectiveness. It will take the colour out of detritis but not always remove it , so the breeding ground remains in tact.

What should we do?

keep hands away from the face, wash or sanitise hands regularly especially after contact with the face. Sanitise hard surfaces twice a day with 24h residual product.

Hi Lee, I said most Disinfectants don't work on Coranavirus, which is true. Disinfectants target Bacteria and maybe Fungi. Virus are very different; maybe not even alive in the sense animals, bacteria and fungi are. Many substances effective against bacteria have no effect on viruses. Although some disinfectants are anti-viral a particular disinfectant's effectiveness depends on what it's made of, read the small print. I'd be surprised if a Supermarket or informed employer was using the wrong one. We might!

English abounds in words with subtly different technical, lay and trade meanings. I mentioned Antibiotics, Disinfectants, Antiseptics & Germicides and Lee adds Cleaners and Sanitisers. Sanitizer is American, and originally just meant disinfectant. Today a Sanitiser is more likely a combined cleaner and disinfectant, but they're not special. A particular Sanitisers effectiveness against COVID depends on its active ingredients. Necessary to use the right one.

Killing is an exact science. Most organisms dislike strong heat or extreme cold. Most are vulnerable to skin damage caused by strong chemicals. Many can be dehydrated with high-proof alcohol. Others can be poisoned with antibiotics or chemical agents. To deal with a threat some weakness is identified and exploited. It's a matter of selecting the best weapon for the job.

Cleaning alone isn't a particularly good way of dealing with a virus. While washing most of it safely down a drain is useful, the remainder stays active. And cleaning makes some of it airborne. Therefore best to combine cleaning with a potent anti-viral, so the beast is washed away and killed.

Bleach and Hydrogen Peroxide are oxidising agents effective against bacteria, fungi and viruses. Powerful chemicals capable of damaging surfaces and people. Good for Toilets rather than Kitchens. And these chemicals aren't good cleaners on their own. But bleach is a very good way of killing a virus, and it doesn't matter if detritus is left behind because a virus can only reproduce inside a host – there is no 'breeding ground' as would help a bacteria.

Lee's advice is good – wash hands regularly and don't touch face. Happens that Covid-19 is damaged by soap so it's quite simple to reduce the risk simply by washing hands.

The real danger is other people! In Sainsbury's yesterday I saw 4 old friends completely forget COVID precautions in the excitement of meeting for the first time in months. The women kissed and the men shook hands before standing in a tight ring to enjoy a long chat. On the way out they were still gas-bagging and I noticed one of the men had taken his mask off…

I would only Covid-clean tools in a workshop shared with someone else. You can't catch Covid-19 off yourself!

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Not sure what to make of Blowlamp's Video. Made 3 months ago in New Zealand. The doctor accepts the value of quarantine but then suggests Isolation is worse than the benefits of Social Distancing. 'The cure is worse than the disease.'

Really?

Lucky New Zealand is one of the safest places in the world. As of yesterday they reported a total of 1569 cases and 22 deaths. Their gentle encounter so far with Covid isn't typical though! Compare with the USA who reported 55148 new cases and 1311 deaths yesterday. Or the UK where 65 reported deaths brought our total to 46,364 fatalities.

I recommend approaching all YouTube Videos made by Medical Entrepreneurs with suspicion. Check evidence and logic.

Dave

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Having read Lee's & SOD's posts mentioning disinfectants i was somewhat concerned. I have been using a couple of 2 litre pressure spray bottles. One in the house for parcel deliveries & certain items of shopping ie items that other shoppers seem to love handling then put backon the shelf for no reason. I even spray the loaves of cut bread from our village shop, because the older villagers love to cough over them & fondle them. (I think they miss their deceased partners)

The other I carry in my van for spraying tools etc that may get shared with others when doing jobs at our sailing club (socially distanced of course). I also spray my hands from time to time if using handrails etc when touching others boats etc. & water is not immediately available

The product I use was purchased from a major builders merchant & is labelled as being to BS 6471. After reading the posts I researched a little & this BS does not seem to appear on any covid related info. So today I rang the manufacturers tech department. i was told that a major constituent is Quarterny Ammonium Compounds of which Benzl C12-16 alkylidnclyl chloride is one ( sorry if I have spelt that wrong ) These are used in the products specified as anti Virus specific products. The tech chap told me that because this disinfectant had not been specifically tested under the particular standards they could not make any claims.( they do have some that has been tested) However, as the chemicals used were the relevant ones he could confirm that this disinfectant was Ok in my domestic situation. He went on to say he was using it at home himself as it was much cheaper. He further felt that possibly not all disinfectants were advisable for use, but would not comment directly on other companies products.

The disinfectant cost £10-00 for 5 litres & has a dilution rate of 1:60

If any one wants to PM me I will tell them what builders merchant & what disinfectant – if that does not break the rules

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Covid / Disinfectant thought for the day: **LINK**

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/08/disinfectant-public-cities-pandemic-urban-wildlife-cvd/

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/08/2020 12:24:24:

Not sure what to make of Blowlamp's Video.
[…]

.

That would be the same ‘blowlamp’ who was previously full of missionary zeal for BitCoin:

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=98610&p=3

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Here is some interesting information on behavioural changes, in this case for the Netherlands, provided by mobile phone movements. It makes sense that people are keeping near to home and a lot easier across the channel where you can simply get a train or drive home if needed. The change in long distance movement eg to the USA is dramatic.

Probably some equivalent data for the UK somewhere. I'd be interested to see how people have moved within the UK too. Must be all sorts of diagrams you could draw showing how many people go to holiday regions like the West Country and where people flow out of lock down areas and where they take the risk to. Can also be done on a local level to show movements into town centres in the evening etc. really no need for a special app to track phones.

[Author]

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