Which pillar drill for drilling thick mild steel angle

Which pillar drill for drilling thick mild steel angle

Home Forums Beginners questions Which pillar drill for drilling thick mild steel angle

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  • #832883
    ell81
    Participant
      @ell81

      So I will be drilling mild steel angle, 3mm up to 6 or 7mm max thickness. The holes will be 10mm diameter up to 13mm diameter. What horse power and RPM will I need for that? I can do 3 phase and single. I assume certain models of Meddings and Startrite are good drills for this job?

      The thicker the steel and the larger the diameter, the slower the RPM right? Or is it only the larger diameter that affects RPM speed?

      Thanks in advance for all and any advice.

      #832887
      Nicholas Farr
      Participant
        @nicholasfarr14254

        Hi ell81, most good quality bench or floor standing drills, should be able to drill 13mm holes in mild steel, many, but nut not all will include a speed chart in their instructions. You can also drill 13mm holes with a decent pistol drill as well, although a pilot hole will make it much easier.

        Regards Nick.

        #832890
        ell81
        Participant
          @ell81

          OK, thanks Nick.

          #832891
          Robert Atkinson 2
          Participant
            @robertatkinson2

            How many holes and is this hobby or production work?
            Looking at new or used?

            13mm is at the top end for a smaller single phase drill press for production work. If anything near production rates get a drill with a 16 or 20mm chuck and >500W motor.

            You want around 900-1000 RPM for 13mm holes in mild steel.

            Robert.

             

            #832892
            Wade Beatty
            Participant
              @wadebeatty78296

              And please clamp the work to the table

              #832893
              noel shelley
              Participant
                @noelshelley55608

                A bench or pillar drill with a 1/2Hp motor (350W ) and run at about 750RPM will work fine for 13mm, 10mm at 1000RPM and 6mm at 1500. A drop of cutting fluid or oil will help and the drill bit should be sharp. If you can dot punch to start, a 4 or 5mm pilot hole may also help for 13mm. Single or 3Phase makes little difference.

                Using a electric hand drill NOT cordless, be very careful as the bit breaks through, it may grab and break the bit and a good 13mm bit may be over £10. An ordinary electric drill will run too fast for these sizes at over 2000RPM. Good luck. Noel.

                #832897
                DC31k
                Participant
                  @dc31k

                  If this is for any sort of business or production environmnt (i.e. are you doing the work to make money), a pillar drill with a Morse taper spindle may be of great advantage.

                  In particular, for the size range you describe (10-13mm), that open up the possiblity for using Rotabroach-type cutters. Although more expensive to purchase than twist drills, they will be quicker for multiple holes.

                  #832900
                  Bazyle
                  Participant
                    @bazyle

                    Make sure you don’t give the job to a pea brained wally as he WILL drill holes in the table. If possible use a backing of hardwood so that as the drill breaks through it still has something to stop it jumping through and snatching then breaking the drill. Slacken off the pressure or the last mm.
                    The end of a 13mm drill has a ‘chisel point’ or flat area about 3mm across that does not cut. This has to be forced through the metal all the way through and causes a small hobby machine to flex under the extra load you have to apply.  Therefore drill a pilot hole.
                    A little oil will prolong the drill bit life a lot.

                    #832911
                    Nicholas Farr
                    Participant
                      @nicholasfarr14254

                      Hi Noel, yes I should have said you need a low speed pistol drill, which many are two speed now-a-days, you will also need to use one that you can use with two hands, and be aware of the breakthrough, I must have drill many hundreds of 13mm holes through all sorts of thickness of steel in my day jobs, and a very god number when building my garage, using a pistol drill. My Clarke floor standing drill has a 510 Watt single phase motor on it, and I’ve drilled several 13mm holes through some quite thick mild steel all day long, and it doesn’t have a top speed of 900 rpm even, but it does have a 16mm chuck on it, and a No, 1 Morse taper in the quill. I would have thought anyone into mass production, would be drilling a large amount of holes every day, every week, and wouldn’t be asking here what size machine they would need, and they would be seeking one for industrial usage, and buying from a suitable commercial supplier, who would be able to recommend one for their particular needs.

                      Regards Nick.

                      #832920
                      noel shelley
                      Participant
                        @noelshelley55608

                        ROTABROACH s are normally a 3/4″ weldon shank only found on a mag drill and needing 1100 W motor. The broaches start at 11mm but are seldom worth the extra trouble and cost at that size and cannot be sharpened except with special equipment. They are not easy to use unless you know how to mark out and centre pop even then if accuracy of position is important one has to be very careful.

                        The OPs question indicates that they are not familiar with drilling or drilling machines so a simple twist bit is best.

                        Noel.

                        #832921
                        noel shelley
                        Participant
                          @noelshelley55608

                          Hi Nick, if it works thats fine but a 16mm chuck on a 1MT is pushing it. My cheap chester/Warco type has a 16mm chuck on a 3MT spindle. Noel.

                          #832936
                          John Haine
                          Participant
                            @johnhaine32865

                            If you can find them, “Pilotpoint” drills make life much easier.  These have a smaller fluted section ground like a normal drill, say 6mm diameter for a 12 or 13mm drill.  This projects behind a pair of “flat” cutting edges shaped like a milling cutter.  In use the pilot point drills a pilot hole then the flat edges follow behind to remove most of the material.  No need for pilot hole (it cuts its own), drills very true, and quickly.  Makes I have bought include Black&Decker and ELU.

                            #832943
                            SillyOldDuffer
                            Moderator
                              @sillyoldduffer

                              Always pays to understand the requirement.  As others have asked, is this production or hobby work?

                              • If the requirement is occasionally drillng a few 13mm holes into smallish lumps of mild-steel, then almost any pillar drill will do the job.   I’m hobby.  The most 13mm holes I’ve drilled in a single session is 6, and my cheap little bench-top does that with no fuss. I’ve used it to drill 24 × 8mm holes through ¼” plate in quick succession, no problem.  It’s a very ordinary Clarke with a 550W single-phase motor, 50% duty cycle, and 5 belt selected speeds.
                              • If the requirement is to drill hundreds of 13mm holes against the clock, day after day, then get a beefier machine.  750W or more, 100% duty cycle, ideally 3-phase not single.

                              In my opinion industrial machines are a waste of money unless they’re used in anger.  Don’t spend good money on anything that will mostly sit rotting away in a corner.

                              Very cheap pillar drills are best avoided – tiny motors, low duty cycle, plastic and mazak, wobbly.

                              Inexpensive pillar drills are mostly OK, but don’t thrash them.  Motors overheat, the frame bends, bearings wear, chuck comes loose, and everything vibrates etc.    They’re satisfactory provided the tool is allowed to do the work rather than forced by a hasty operator, and provided the motor is given a few minutes to cool every few holes.   Most inexpensive pillar drills are ‘hobby’.

                              Industrial pillar drills are expensively built to do hard continuous work – even abuse.   Stiff and heavy.  Powerful 100% duty cycle motor, well-cooled.  Better bearings and drive train with less run-out.   Better chuck, with more grip.   Able to take tapered drills.   Smooth table position adjustment.   And more.   All jolly nice, but cost big dosh that a hobbyist might need elsewhere.

                              Size may be the most important consideration.  My little pillar drill has a shallow throat, and positioning long lengths of angle-iron is a pain. Only just big enough for my needs and I’d buy a floor standing pillar drill if I had to drill big items.

                              Speed about 500rpm.   Bit faster for free-cutting, slower for tougher mild-steel.

                              Keep the feed-rate low on a hobby drill –  ribbons coming off steadily with mild force, no smoke.  I judge motor load by ear, aiming to hear it work without labouring.  Definitely drill a pilot as recommended by others – takes time, but reduces cutting forces considerably, as does some cutting fluid.

                              Industrial drills can be forced to get through work much faster, and without a pilot hole.  Though highly stressed the machine is designed to take a beating.  High production speed isn’t always good:  twist drills wear out rapidly, especially cheap ones, and a need to drill hundreds of holes quickly makes it necessary to buy high-end twist drills – don’t skimp.   Inexpensive twist drills give good service in my experience, but only when driven at hobby rates.  Second-hand may not be the answer because many commercially driven pillar drills are driven hard for years.  Problem is spares are usually full price, perhaps more than the drill is worth.   Condition is everything, not the brand.

                              I’d cheerfully buy a high-end pillar drill if I had masses of drilling to do, but I don’t.   My cheap little Clarke is 14 years old and still in perfect working order…   A Meddings would have been a poor choice for me:  high purchase price, taking up space I can’t spare, and rarely switched on.   Others make full use of them – it depends on what the workshop is for.

                              Dave

                               

                               

                              #832946
                              Nicholas Farr
                              Participant
                                @nicholasfarr14254

                                Hi Noel, sorry my mistake, I should have said It’s a 2 MT taper in the quill.

                                Regards Nick.

                                #832953
                                DC31k
                                Participant
                                  @dc31k
                                  On noel shelley Said:

                                  ROTABROACH s are normally a 3/4″ weldon shank only found on a mag drill and needing 1100 W motor.

                                  The magnetic drilling machine’s motor is sized to cope with the largest diameter for which it is specified, so saying 1100w is needed is not correct.

                                  At the small size mentioned, the required power will be a lot less. Common sense would tell you that pushing a 13mm annular cutter through a piece of steel will take less power than a 13mm twist drill, with the added bonus of not needing a pilot hole.

                                  Morse to Weldon adaptors are available (at rip-off prices) to allow the cutters to be used in a drill press. A Morse shank ER32 collet chuck (and one single collet) will also work.

                                  10mm size annular cutters are available. £8.72 here: https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/mag-drill-hss-cutter-10mm-short-25mm-with-universal-19mm-weldon-shank.html

                                  13mm Presto drill £3.90 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152871318118)

                                  If the labour to drill the holes is being used for commercial ends (see Robert’s astute question), the time saving would soon exceed the £4.82 difference.

                                  #832958
                                  Chris Crew
                                  Participant
                                    @chriscrew66644

                                    Best thing to do is go in to your nearest Machine Mart tomorrow (they’re open Sundays) and have look at what they have got. All the Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured bench or floor standing models are the same, they just get branded and priced differently. There are no British manufacturers anymore and even later Meddings machines were mostly manufactured in Spain.

                                    As I have said before on here, for over forty-years my second-hand Taiwanese bench drill has been reliable and accurate even though I was told I had been a damned fool for buying it at the time by more than one person who supposedly ‘knew’ about these things. It wouldn’t ‘think’ twice about pushing a 13mm drill through mild steel. Make sure you get one with a rotating table with ratchet rise and fall, either bench mounting or floor standing, because it makes setting up so much more convenient.

                                    #832994
                                    Nigel Graham 2
                                    Participant
                                      @nigelgraham2

                                      I’d been brung up to define a pillar drill as one standing on the floor – to which it is securely bolted by proper anchors -and a bench drill as similar but with a low column for bolting to a sturdy bench.

                                       

                                      The thickness of the intended work does not really influence the power needed. You say the maximum thickness is <8mm, so not particularly deep.

                                      Most drilling machines have a central hole in the table for the drill to pass clear through: we have all seen machines with an arc of pits each side of that hole, thanks to abuse by idle bodgers! I expect many of us have also seen drilling-vices that have been attacked by carbide-molared mice.

                                       

                                      Whatever the cutting-tool, clamp the work securely. 

                                      This may be in a drilling-vice bolted to the table (ensuring the drill will not touch the vice), or directly to the table by suitable fences and clamps, and again, again so the drill does not drill the machine.

                                      Set the quill depth-stop. Test the set-up without a workpiece for drill-bit clearance.

                                      My Meddings bench drill has no separate table, and no central hole in its base so I aim for the centre of one of the two T-slots.

                                      If you are drilling a batch of components it’s often worth fitting a temporary end-stop for the work to aid repeatability. This can be as simple as a spare clamp held to the table with a normal Tee-nut, stud, etc.

                                      .

                                      Dave refers to the difficulty of holding long work-pieces. Applicable also to horizontal band-saws without proper bar-stands, this can necessitate some improvising, e.g,..

                                      – If room, a “Workmate” type bench with some suitable timber packing or a screw-jack clamped to it,

                                      – A length of wood clamped at the right height across the door-frame or to some structure like a bench,

                                      – A sturdy hook or some other feature in the ceiling from which a cord can suspend the outer end. (In my workshop it’s a lightweight travelling crane, but I have also used those other ideas!)

                                      #833029
                                      larry phelan 1
                                      Participant
                                        @larryphelan1

                                        Please excuse if this sounds like a bad record !

                                        I bought a Taiwanese floorstanding machine in 1983, which I am still using, almost every day. It is fitted with a 16mm chuck and has more speeds than I ever need.

                                        It laughs at 12mm holes and just smirks at 20mm, provided the drills are sharp.

                                        On one job for a friend, we drilled almost 200 20mm holes while making window guards and found no problem with the machine, no stalling/overheating.

                                        Not saying you could do this everyday, but if you are into production work, you would not be asking here. I agree with Dave, 500/600 is about right for 12mm, a pilot hole helps. Support for long workpieces is easy enough to arrange but good clamping is MUCH more important, broken drills are easy enough to replace, broken fingers or hands, not so easy !

                                        These machines are perfectly good enough for most workshops and indeed are to be found all over. 12mm in MS Angle is no big deal, no matter how thick.

                                        Just my tuppence worth !

                                        #833046
                                        Robert Atkinson 2
                                        Participant
                                          @robertatkinson2
                                          On Chris Crew Said:

                                          Best thing to do is go in to your nearest Machine Mart tomorrow (they’re open Sundays) and have look at what they have got. All the Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured bench or floor standing models are the same, they just get branded and priced differently. There are no British manufacturers anymore and even later Meddings machines were mostly manufactured in Spain.

                                          As I have said before on here, for over forty-years my second-hand Taiwanese bench drill has been reliable and accurate even though I was told I had been a damned fool for buying it at the time by more than one person who supposedly ‘knew’ about these things. It wouldn’t ‘think’ twice about pushing a 13mm drill through mild steel. Make sure you get one with a rotating table with ratchet rise and fall, either bench mounting or floor standing, because it makes setting up so much more convenient.

                                          I can’t agree with your claim that ” All the Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured bench or floor standing models are the same, they just get branded and priced differently.”
                                          While they may be built to the same design the quality varies widely. Many of the manufacturers will build to a price / quality point. Ths two rery similat tools may be very different. This has been discussed on here many times. Mostly in relation to small lathes.
                                          I’m put Machine Mart / Clarke at about the midpoint on quality.

                                          Robert G8RPI.

                                          #833075
                                          Chris Crew
                                          Participant
                                            @chriscrew66644

                                            “I’m put Machine Mart / Clarke at about the midpoint on quality.”

                                            So, Robert, which manufacturer/brand would you put at the highest and lowest point on quality? I think we should be told so that we can make a more informed decision on which product to purchase.

                                            Personally, I have absolutely no idea how these things are manufactured or graded, but I strongly suspect that a range of production facilities make a component, or components, for these products to be assembled and branded in various colours at a ‘central’ facility. You can see this repeated in a range of products from semi-universal dividing heads to milling/drilling machines, lathes and pillar drills.

                                            If you, or anybody else, has information to contradict my observation I would be very happy to consider an alternative view.

                                            #833080
                                            Bazyle
                                            Participant
                                              @bazyle

                                              A big company like Machine Mart will be getting feedback from their stores and customers on each batch as they get sold and will have the right relationship and clout with their supplier to bring up quality issues.
                                              A conscientious trader like Arc or Amadeal will also have a relationship and has probably had to agree a slightly higher price to get the right response to such issues.
                                              An unknown ebay trader who just gets a dozen items to get the next price break may not care too much about quality affecting long term reputation.
                                              The low volume relative to say television sales makes it a bit more difficult to get problems cycled round into improvements.

                                              #833091
                                              Nicholas Farr
                                              Participant
                                                @nicholasfarr14254

                                                Hi, well, I got my Clarke floor standing drill from some the last clear out of the original Myford site in Nottinghamshire, it was in good condition when I got it, and has drilled a real lot of holes since of all sorts of sizes up to about 19mm, and is still in good condition. The price I paid for it was very reasonable for a second hand machine.

                                                Regards Nick.

                                                #833117
                                                Chris Crew
                                                Participant
                                                  @chriscrew66644

                                                  If a generic Clarke machine was good enough for the original Myford to invest in and use, I guess it should be good enough for anybody. I am just a little surprised that it was not of the Taiwanese Rexon brand as I was under the impression that Myford had some sort of relationship with this company at some point. They certainly imported and re-branded as Myford a range of Taiwanese milling machines at one time, selling them at a premium price because they reconfigured the electrics and possibly changed the motors. I recall seeing this operation underway on a batch of machines when I visited the works with a small group of my fellow club members in the early 1990’s but whether these were actually manufactured by Rexon or another Taiwanese company, I have no idea. Something in the back of my mind tells me that it was rumoured that Rexon might take over Myford at one point, although I may be completely incorrect on this point.

                                                  #833123
                                                  cedric 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @cedric

                                                    13mm hole in steel is nothing special. Any common  drill press or pistol drill will do that if used correctly, ie right rpm and a pilot hole. Smaller drill press might require a bigger pilot hole to reduce load on the final cut. 900rpm should do you.

                                                    #833150
                                                    peter1972
                                                    Participant
                                                      @peter1972

                                                      A drill press is not needed.

                                                      I have drilled several 12.7mm holes through 8mm steel with a 1200 Watt mains-power hand-held drill (on its lower gear setting), even without a pilot hole.

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