Rotary table problem

This topic has 24 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 18 April 2018 at 20:07 by bricky.

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17 April 2018 at 12:18 #33188
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
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17 April 2018 at 12:18 #350462
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
Hi Everyone,

I,m sure everyone remembers the on-going-saga of my rotary table.

I decided to address the problem,and having discovered that the center bush is hardened,was unable to machine it true,using an end mill on the milling machine. So I then set about dismantling it to try pressing out the bush,using a 10 ton press. I got most of it apart [never seen the inside of it before ],but was still unable to get at the back of the center bush. I can see the underside of the bush but there is another piece,the wormwheel?,in the way. This seems to be held in place by four screws,which I removed but could not remove the item itself. The center shaft appears to be part of this unit and that,s what prevents access to the bush. At that stage I held fire and decided to refer to a higher Authority,namely,your good selves,having put my lump hammer away,for the moment.

Can anyone out there throw any light on this,as to how this thing comes apart ? Since it is held in place by screws,it must be a separate piece and it seems to be the only thing left to remove. I,ve no doubt that someone has taken these things apart many times.

I did consider trying to bore out the bush on the lathe,in order to get back to the cast iron body and then trueing it up on the mill,but I suspect that the boring bar would have a hard time,if indeed it would work.

All help and advice welcome. [The hammer is still to hand,should all else fail !]
17 April 2018 at 12:25 #350465
Muzzer
Participant
@muzzer
Did you re-register? You appear to have made only 4 posts including this one – and none relate to a rotary table. Perhaps you posted under a different name?
17 April 2018 at 12:29 #350466
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Perhaps he is now “larry phelan 1”?
17 April 2018 at 12:56 #350470
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
I am one and the same ! What happened was that while trying to clear out old history,I managed to clear out everything,including my own Email address ! The result was that I had to set up a new one Dont even go down that road !!!!! I,m still tearing out what little hair I have left.

Any views on my table ?
17 April 2018 at 13:02 #350473
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Larry, all your history must still be on the forum server, surely? Someone (probably Neil or mods) should be able to reconnect or merge them with your current registration?
17 April 2018 at 13:10 #350475
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Whilst Larry is trying to regain his identity … This might be useful: **LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=125429

MichaelG.
17 April 2018 at 13:36 #350479
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
I,m sure my identity problem will be resolved in time,right now I,m more concerned with sorting out my table. It galls me to get this far without being able to correct it..
17 April 2018 at 14:07 #350487
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by larry phelan 1 on 17/04/2018 13:36:42:

I,m sure my identity problem will be resolved in time,right now I,m more concerned with sorting out my table.

.

Which is why I posted that link to the old thread

MichaelG.

.

Whilst = during the period of time in which

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/04/2018 14:24:02
17 April 2018 at 14:32 #350488
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
I have tried to follow the suggestions offered in the previous thread without success which is why I am now at this point. Would it not be easier to just treat this as a new problem and move on from here?

You can rest assured that I am the same body. My computer problems will sort themselves out in time,they are not my main concern right now. I will still be thankful for any advice regarding the table. What I need to know is how to remove this center unit in order to gain access to the underside of the bush so that I can press it out.
17 April 2018 at 14:48 #350490
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Larry,

Please forgive me if I am intruding !!

I really posted the link for the benefit of Muzzer and ndiy … so that they had a reference to work from.

MichaelG.
17 April 2018 at 15:30 #350494
John Reese
Participant
@johnreese12848
If you set up the part on a lathe to bore it why not make a cylindrical bore of a convenient size in the hardened ring. None of the rotaries I have owned had MT sleeves. Never missed them. I much prefer a cylindrical bore to locate on.
17 April 2018 at 15:49 #350497
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Taking a short breather from my current chores …

Here is Larry's follow-up thread about the Rotary Table:

**LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=134887

… Sorry, I haven't got time to join in the discussion.

MichaelG.
17 April 2018 at 16:39 #350507
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
Just made a mess of this post again !

Michael,you are not intruding,far from it,all are welcome.

John, Like you I am not too interested in having an MT center,as long as the center is true to the table edge,that,s all that matters. In this case it is not,so the plan was to press out the bush and set the table up on the mill to correct the error,as advised. The problem is that I cannot get at the rear of the bush to press it out. I did try boring out the bush but it is hardened and I,m not sure that the boring bar could handle it.It did not seem too happy. If I thought I could bore the bush out,back to the cast iron of the table,I would do so and then set it up on the mill and proceed from there. I just thought that being able to remove the bush would make things easier.

I managed to dismantle most of the table but could not see how to remove this unit held in by four screws,which would suggest that it is a separate piece [indeed,it must be ]. If I cannot remove it,I will try again boring out the bush with a tipped tool.
17 April 2018 at 16:44 #350508
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 17/04/2018 14:48:47:

Larry,

Please forgive me if I am intruding !!

I really posted the link for the benefit of Muzzer and ndiy … so that they had a reference to work from.

MichaelG.

Thanks, but of no benefit to me. I was perfectly able to do a search for ‘rotary table’.
17 April 2018 at 17:20 #350519
Vic
Participant
@vic
If I can make a suggestion Larry, if you put “Rotary Table tear down” in YouTube there are a number of videos that come up. Perhaps one of them may be of help?
17 April 2018 at 17:33 #350521
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
17 April 2018 at 19:45 #350534
Anonymous
Posted by John Reese on 17/04/2018 15:30:54:

I much prefer a cylindrical bore to locate on.

+1^2

Waaaay more useful than a Morse taper.

Andrew
17 April 2018 at 20:08 #350537
Jeff Dayman
Participant
@jeffdayman43397
to Michael Gilligan – you have a PM
17 April 2018 at 20:21 #350539
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
My thanks to you Vic,

I looked up U Tube as you suggested and while it did not answer my question [the table in question being a Vertex with a center bore,part of the table,not a press in unit ] it did make clear that this unit which is giving me trouble,is indeed a separate unit,which must come out. I will attack this again within the next day or two.

I am surprised that nobody else has come across this problem before. I might add that the Vertex table seems to be a better design than the Homage [could it be worse? ]
18 April 2018 at 13:15 #350602
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
F W I W, my Vertex HV6 has a separate 2MT steel bush in the centre. (It came out one day!), so Larry's bush is probably removable.

Is it possible to make up some form of puller (Fine thread; – UNF or BSF rather than metric coarse; nut with plenty of engagement – 2D; and bush to receive the central bush from the table) Possibly, having applied the maximum of force, a tap with a mallet might just start things moving. If it is possible to apply a heat gun to the outer rim of the table after tightening the extractor, this may help; allow time for the heat to soak through. Things may come apart quite suddenly!

Once out, you can decide further action.

Suggestion: if you decide to stick with the 2MT, could you get a 2MT straight socket ground on the OD, (and maybe shortened) to suit the bore in the table, and then apply an anaerobic to secure it in place even more firmly.

Howard
18 April 2018 at 16:36 #350615
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Posted by John Reese on 17/04/2018 15:30:54:

If you set up the part on a lathe to bore it why not make a cylindrical bore of a convenient size in the hardened ring. None of the rotaries I have owned had MT sleeves. Never missed them. I much prefer a cylindrical bore to locate on.

I'm with John on this one, in fact I cannot see a MT hole having any advantages.

Downside of MT is the height needed to install the male MT part (whether its carrying a chuck, plain spigot, faceplate or whatever). Its OK if the mill has plenty of daylight and you want to machine something that say, has come part from the lathe, if the part was held in the lathe by a Morse arbour. I suppose a lot depends on the type of work the RT is being used for but I tend to think of RTs as being mounted with the axis vertical and work clamped to the tee slots.

If the RT has a female Morse how does one remove whatever is stuck in the taper?

I created an accurate parallel hole in my table using a long end mill and rotating the table by hand (a bit laborious but its only done once) and make close fitting spigots or bushes to suit the job in hand.

Ian P
18 April 2018 at 17:17 #350621
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
John,

With the HV6 in vertical mode, you slacken the drawscrew, and give it a tap, to break the taper, (This was how I found that the 2MT sleeve was removable!)

With it in the Horizontal mode, unless the 2MT male part has a means of gripping it, such as a thread, the Table has to be removed to allow access to the rear of whaterever item is in the taper.

In my book, the MT is , or SHOULD be, consistent and concentric, location. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case for Larry; hence this thread.

Howard
18 April 2018 at 19:29 #350637
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
Yes Howard,that is another option, I think it is removable ,since it seems to be made from a different material,unlike the cast iron of the table.. Once out,it will stay out,a plain bore will do me,as long as it see,s-eye-to-eye with the rim.

I intend to stick with this now since it,s no use to me as it is.

I will keep you posted,good news or bad.

Watch this space !!
18 April 2018 at 20:07 #350642
bricky
Participant
@bricky
I made a parallel bore in mine and made the threaded bar to fit and secured it by drilling a hole at the end of a tee slot with the spindle in place and drilled into it and a long piece of bar which protrudes over the end of the tee slot is pushed in to lock it in place works for me.To drill the hole I silver soldered a drill into a long rod.

Frank
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