The 5/16 stainless 316 elements in my Springbok go to the back of the firebox. They have TIG welded spear point joins. I'm pretty sure taking them to the back is standard. No need for support.

Julian Atkins – I know you are very knowledgeable about steam models. However it would do you credit to dispense with the passive aggressive overtones ie "novel construction" and "I hope your club boiler inspector is happy with it".

That's Mr Kyte's business, isn't it?

If the TIG welding on the firebox is what you are having issues with, TIG welded copper boilers have been well proven and are here to stay. Get used to it.

Hi Martin,

You deserve a fuller reply from me in response to Jeff Dayman's post.

My own 3.5"g GWR King to the Jackson design required new superheaters, and the LBSC type will be replaced with stainless elements extending the full length of the firebox. It will also have a redesigned smokebox draughting kindly done for me by Jos Koopmans.

(If the Perrier drawings follow the GWR drawings for the original single chimney design they will be deficient, or at least not ideal).

The GWR King boiler is an elegant thing and very nuanced and complicated.

A simple butt welded joint to the throatplate and barrel will IMHO reduce water circulation at quite a vital point, and the butt welded joints elsewhere will rob the boiler of it's external appearance, unless well covered up by the cleading.

I am assuming the tubes, being TIG welded on your boiler, are thicker than normal? A recent Commercial boiler on the modeleng proboards site (for Don Young's 'Doncaster' ) has some TIG welded joints but the tubes are silver soldered in. It looks the part, and is clearly extremely well made.

If you have cast iron cylinders etc and piston valve liners and piston valves with cast iron rings, you won't have any problem with full length radiant superheaters in the firebox, and I have no hesitation in fitting them as such to my own 3.5"g example with cast gunmetal cylinders and slide valves.

Quite a few club boiler inspectors haven't a clue how to deal with a TIG welded copper boiler, or for that matter steel welded boilers. Quite a few haven't a clue how to deal with all silver soldered copper boilers.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 25/06/2019 23:29:15

Edited By julian atkins on 25/06/2019 23:29:54

Whilst I could be the first to say that Julian Atkins is a far more experienced Model Engineer than myself, I still think I am experienced enough to spot a criticism that is not worth noting. After all, I didn't start the hobby until 1972. I note that what he says has many valid points but why does he have to either finish what he says or within his words, by "slanging someone off.". In his last write up he starts on the Boiler Testers. I think this is wrong. None of our Societies would function without these people that give their time up to help the rest of the Societies members. I have heard him call LBSC, MARTIN EVANS, DON YOUNG and many more, including an esteemed deceased friend of mine GORDON SMITH. Where would the hobby be without these sort of people in the past.Would the hobby be in the same place as it is know with all the knowledge that has been written down in our many books an magazines etc.The person that has not made a mistake yet has not been born yet but why call people like these down so that the rest of the world knows about it. I know its helpful to point a mistake out but lets do it via some other means, other than this forum. Back to the Boiler Testers. I have a lot of friends within the hobby of witch a lot are boiler testers. I WOULD TRUST ANY BOILER THAT'S BEEN MADE BY MEMBERS OR PROFESSIONALLY IN THEIR HANDS. Indeed our Societies inspectors are". very on top of the job" whether it be hydraulic, steam test or checking the silver soldering during the construction stage. If as he says" Some havn't got a clue", surely that is up to the Societies governing body,who must have agreed to them filling the position, to find someone else that can do the job.. I do not think that our Societies fill the boiler testers positions with idiots or people that don't know what to do. The boiler test code books are mainly easy to follow and in for our Society, Allan Reid of the NAME is always easy to get hold of.

So to finish off, is it right to call people down within this forum?.

Keith,

Is this really contentious? Perhaps you and Julian aren't quite on the same page:

Julian said: 'Quite a few club boiler inspectors haven't a clue how to deal with a TIG welded copper boiler, or for that matter steel welded boilers. Quite a few haven't a clue how to deal with all silver soldered copper boilers.'

And you said: 'I do not think that our Societies fill the boiler testers positions with idiots or people that don't know what to do. The boiler test code books are mainly easy to follow and in for our Society, Allan Reid of the NAME is always easy to get hold of.'

Surely both statements are true? My understanding is that Club Inspectors are limited by experience and boiler codes to a take a conservative stance on boilers. Copper boilers made to a proven design are relatively straightforward to make and inspect, so few problems with them.

A steel-welded boiler is a very different proposition. Probably not something a semi-skilled amateur should tackle, and difficult to assess without suitable equipment and suitable welding qualifications and experience.

It's when someone develops a boiler of unusual design, materials, or construction, that trouble starts. Whatever the boiler's merits, and they could be substantial, it's likely that the boiler is outside Code and the Inspectors experience. This undoubtedly makes life difficult for innovators, and perhaps societies should be doing more for adventurous builders. As it is, anyone wanting a certificated modern boiler has to go the professional route. Not because Boiler Inspectors are idiots – they can only do what they know.

I don't think Julian's comments on loco-designers are misjudged either. They all dropped the ball at least once! LBSC deservedly has many fans but he was a living breathing human being with all the usual faults. I find over a long career his work ranged from brilliant to half-baked. I'm sure everybody who has ever made anything is more-or-less flawed, and the basis of progress can only be criticism.

Dave