Near Scale Diesel Hydraulic Shunter

This topic has 8 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 16 April 2012 at 21:42 by Sub Mandrel.

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22 October 2011 at 09:19 #76627
Sub Mandrel
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@submandrel
Sorry to post a thread about a non-steam, non-scale subject in here, but two mitigating reasons: I need theadvice of those who know, and it’s time to celebrate me even thinking about starting a loco!

I have some very poor pictures of an old industrial shunter of standard gauge. I think it would be very easy to make it into a 3 1/2″ gauge electric diesel outline model, but I have some queries:

It will be rather small, about the size of a Tich, with <2″ wheels, on tread. Is it feasible for an electric model of this size to pull a (13 stone) adult?

Is it feasible to use steel wheels? I know full size engines use steel tyres, but is there less adhesion than with cast iron?

What sort of all-up weight should I aim for?

One obvious answer is ‘go for 5″ gauge’, I know, but I have virtually all the materials to hand for a smaller version.

Neil
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22 October 2011 at 09:19 #1042
Sub Mandrel
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@submandrel
22 October 2011 at 10:02 #76634
Dusty
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@dusty
Neil

To the contrary, steel wheels will give you better adhesion than cast iron. Remember the bearing qualities of cast iron? The same effect is found on wheels on rails, as most club tracks are steel rails and the others alloy. Steel will work better than cast iron on both.

Cast iron also being slightly porous tends to pick up and retain oil from the track which does not help matters. Go for the steel.
22 October 2011 at 10:40 #76636
John Baguley
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@johnbaguley78655
A friend has an 08 shunter in 2½” gauge and that will easily pull him around the track. The motor is out of an electric scoooter driving through the bevel gears from an angle grinder. The batteries are only about 4ah but last for ages. Make it as heavy as you can for better adhesion!

John
22 October 2011 at 11:27 #76637
Richard Parsons
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@richardparsons61721
Stub

I have many pictures and profile drawings of the RABA 48. It is a narrow gauge (750mm) of the MAV standard gauge shunter the RABA 24 (aka M43). Both are diesel hydraulic units with a two off four wheeled bogies. They are called ‘hydraulic’ actually they have a ‘Fluid Clutch’ Transmission system. There is a very good book by Paul Engelbert called ‘Forestry Railways In Hungary’. A 3 ½” gauge RABA 48 would be a powerful little passenger hauler

To Google try ‘Magyar mozdonyok’ or ‘Dízel mozdonyok’, at this lot ’lillafured narrow gauge railway’ There is a few good images here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDz_FBDeykw, but much of it is ’arty-*arty’ stuff This one is the closure of the Kecskemet Bugos line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbN-qyGhENY&feature=related

Want more I might get you some more data

Regds
Dick
22 October 2011 at 13:38 #76644
AndyP
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@andyp13730
Neil,

I built a 3 1/2″ gauge electric for the grandchildren to play with but it will drag my 18 stone round the club track.

2 1/2″ wheels, 18 kilos all up, outside frames, single 120w motor, gearbox using hand drill bevel gears driving one axle and coupling rods. 12 ah sealed battery and simple non-reversing controller, reverse is via a dpdt switch on loco (4 year old likes throwing that at full speed !)

Far more fun than it should be.

Andy

Edited By AndyP on 22/10/2011 13:58:03
22 October 2011 at 14:25 #76645
Sub Mandrel
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@submandrel
Thanks all,

That’s really encouraging advice. I even have a set of bevels from a late, lamented angle grinder, together with two 7AH SLA batteries and a large motor from a narrowboat shower pump (it’s about 4.4″ x 3″ diameter, but I have now idea of the power, slow revving but appears powerful).

It is quite small, I estimate just under 12″ long, so I will have to keep the batteries in a driving car and I doubt it will reach 18kg, even with some added ballast. Here’s a couple of pictures, from one of those keyring digital cameras from the days before our phones wer better than our slrs:

Yes, it DOES have a brass chimney! It’s outside a pub near Ufton in Warwickshire. IIRC they have something like a gauge 1 railway going around the opicture rail too. I think it may be called ‘The Railway’ the other pub nearby has an Iguanadon on its sign, the Jurrasic or something like that. It’s years since I lived/worked near there.

I might start chewing the frames out of 3mm steel today

Neil
30 October 2011 at 11:02 #77056
Sub Mandrel
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@submandrel
Blessed be the Googlers for they shall discover much data!

It’s a Hudswell Clarke shunter of 1936, number D604. They built the first diesel hydraulic engine in just 1932, and it was steam outline for a minature railway in the northeast!

Sadly(?) it appears that a private collector from Ely bought it several years ago and its location is now unknown. I found a couple of much better pictures on a shunter website (though they have many copyright warnings ) I also found a couple of other similar engines which help a bit too. There is an engine called ‘mighty atom’ from Harwell nuclear power station that is almost a twin of this engine, but has added bits.

I now have plenty of detail of things like the missing buffers and couplers. The one thing no photo shows is the springing arrangement or any detail of the hornblocks. It’s clear they must have poked down below the bottom line of the frame, but I will have to guess the rest. I’m using a set of Tich hornblocks, as they are for 2″ diameter wheels and I think that I will probably use a spring set in the top of each axlebox acting against the inner top of the hornblock.

Can anyone advise how much travel I should aim for? Is about 1/8″ under load enough, or sd I go for 1/4″?

Neil
16 April 2012 at 21:42 #89230
Sub Mandrel
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@submandrel
Can I re-ask the question in that last post? the engine is presently about 24lbs, with 10lbs on the front axle and 14 on the back – I may be able to add another pound over the front axle, if I can find some more lead.

I have provisionally set the springs (cut bits off) so that there is only 1/16" between axlebox and hornkeep. This leaves bottom of the 'girder' below the buffer beams 5/32" above the rails. Does this sound about OK?

Neil
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