surface rust on lathe ways

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Evaporust and a rag. No abrasives!

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Michael Walters on 14/02/2016 14:13:12:

Posted by Nick_G on 14/02/2016 13:04:02:

Posted by Michael Walters on 14/02/2016 12:56:07:

You want a good rotary tool to make the clean up a little quicker for cleaning large areas.

Michael W

.

Can you expand on that.

I read that as being anything between a dentists drill, fly cutter, angle grinder or a 1000mm face mill.

Nick

Lol, well i guess i didnt mean like a Dividing head or a pin vice but more on the spectrum of angle grinder with appropriately mild abrasive or polishing disc attatched. I wouldnt want to stand there for hours meticulously polishing every spot by hand but thats just me 😛

Michael W

The idea is to remove rust not polish it. Machine tools such as this one were made to a pretty high precision. Polishing mops etc an easily mess thing up. It doesn't take long to do it by hand anyway.

John

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[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I would lather with oil and use it.
Mark P.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Thanks to those who responded to my inquiry about Jenolite. I shall be interested to see if it can be sent through the post.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

A little 3 in1 oil and a soft cotton cloth, that is very light rusr, will not at all damage the acuracy of the machine, and will be sufficiently abrasive in itself to clean the ways. Polish with green pan scrub (not the abrasive kind) and use it, the more it is used, the brighter it will get.

Phil

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Story was 3 M pan scrubbers used carborundum, much better to use wire wool if you must.

Secret rust remover might have been Molasses.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I don't think the scouring cloths I've used have carborundum in them. It would make a right mess of aluminium and other things my wife cleans with them.

John

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[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Ajohnw. I know an old ex machine tool dealer from Sutton Coldfield (Streetly actually) so we may have the same guy in mind. He was a neighbour of mine and when I worked In tool making bought machinery from him. He used to used the nylon kitchen washing up brushes and paraffin then the same brushes and degreaser mainly to scrub up the paintwork but also on the slideways. I have no problems using the kitchen type scotchbrite pads on rusty ways, just think how long and hard it would be to remove a few tenths of a thou with one.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I visited him Chris. Can'r remember which road but he said he made a living mostly renovating lawns plus some garden work, He had a "rusty" lathe in the garage. Quotes as it looked rather dark and crusty. When he told me what he did I wondered why the hell I worked so hard.

I can't even remember why I visited him or how long ago but pretty sure it was Sutton not Streetly, much of that is way too posh. It was a middling area. It was a long time ago. Can't think of anything to tie it down, not even what car I was driving. Might have been more Wylde Green or even down towards Pype Hayes.

Actually I'd wish anyone luck even removing 1/10 thou with those cloths. Curious how cleaning anything discussions go. I'd stick to paraffin what ever is used as often there will be either oil or gum from it under the rust.

Not keen on molasses. It clearly attacks in some fashion, probably the carbon in the steel. It can leave parts bright but others even areas that take longer turn a pretty disgusting blackish colour.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 14/02/2016 23:16:45

Edited By Ajohnw on 14/02/2016 23:17:38

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for Scotchbrite nylon scourers. The different colours signify different grades. I think that the dark green used in the kitchen are the hardest. They will remove rust, but unlikely to remove much metal, look how the material wears out with use in the kit chen on ceramics. We used to use them in industry for cleaning dirty or rusted surfaces. Would advise using oil rather than paraffine (kerosene), it can absorb water, so that you would plant the seeds of more rust.

For iron or steels to rust there must be water and oxygen present. You won't keep out the oxygen, unless you vacuum pack the lathe, so once clean, seal out the water with oil.

In my previous shop, when cold, the oil on the bedways of my Myford would turn milky as it emulsified with the moisture, so had be wiped off and replaced after use. Keep the atmosphere as dry, as possible, and above the dew point, (I switch on a 240 volt, 60watt tubular heater when the weather is cold, in a well insulated shop, in UK, and VERY rarely see any rust). If you are in a high humidity location, the problem is greater, and you may even need to use a dehumidifier.

Do not heat the shop with any combustion heater, (Woodburner, gas fire, liquid fuel heater) since these all produce moisture in operation; and Carbon Monoxide which will not do you any good.

If you want to ventilate, have the vents at floor level.  Moist air is heavier than dry.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 14/02/2016 23:45:53

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

More luck than judgement all this cleaning stuff, i find the rust tends to occur pretty randomly even on items of the same grade of steel.

Michael W

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

ACF50 (google it, it's available on ebay) sprayed everywhere in a thin film, or if you are hell bent on a shiny look, grey ultrafine scotchbrite and a very thin oil.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

The trouble with Scotchbrite pads is the embedded abrasive, it is hard and sharp.

Yes It does scratch glass! I know…….

I was involved in a building renovation a while back and an apprentice was given the job of cleaning windows. He cleaned the glass and presto $2000 dollars worth of window glass to be replaced and repainted. We tried diamond pad polishing them but the scratches were too deep.

From memory it was green from the local supermarket.

I have been scared of the stuff ever since.

Regards
John

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

What a lot of information. Thank you all. If I can gain access to the lathe soon, I will start with oil and a soft cloth, then work up. I had no idea scotchbrites had abrasives in them; I thought they were just nylon or similar. I normally use well worn ex kitchen ones for delicate things. I also have some grade 0000 steel wool I bought years ago for woodwork but never used. The ACF50 looks impressive. Given how hard it is to remove half a thou from a part spinning in the lathe with the determined application of a strip of emery, I am not too worried about removing metal to a ruinous degree.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 14/02/2016 23:44:46:………

…………

Do not heat the shop with any combustion heater, (Woodburner, gas fire, liquid fuel heater) since these all produce moisture in operation; and Carbon Monoxide which will not do you any good.

If you want to ventilate, have the vents at floor level. Moist air is heavier than dry.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 14/02/2016 23:45:53

Moist air is less dense than dry air.

As to woodburners.. I have one in my shed. theoretically (at least) the air flow should be into the burner and up the flue.. not out into the shed unless you have leaks or insufficient ventilation. I did discover with mine that the fitted vent was too small and with the fire roaring the CO alarm went off (and a nasty dizzy spell) so i concede that there can be a backflow. Keeping a window cracked open has solved this. I'm a big fan of CO detectors now…I have no signs of rust on items stored there over a year with no oil.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi all, pgk pgk, remember, you have to allow the air that is going up the flue into the building, as if you don't what happens is exactly what you have experienced. Rather than create a draft across your shop, you need an air pipe at least the same size as the flue to take air to as near to the stove inlet as possible. I have heard a rule of thumb that stated that a "brightly burning fire" in a domestic size open fireplace draws 24 cu ft a minute of air up the flue. If your "shed" is really a shed with a wooden floor, cut a hole either side of the stove and put hit and miss vents on so you can close it off when the fire is not lit.

Phil

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

If you want rid of rust I can heartily recommend Bilt Hamber Deox-C. See below:-

http://www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-protection-and-rust-treatments/

Carl.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

My shed is an insulated concrete base, 3" cellotex in a timber frame ply covered inside and upvc outside on walls and ceiling and double glazed upvc windows and doors. Aluminium faux slate roof. An approved vent was fitted to one side of the woodburner. I paid out for an approved fitter to avoid any insurance arguments in case of disaster. Quite apart from the metalwork toys my rc helis live there and cost even more.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Ajohnw looks like we are on about different people as I lived in the same road as the guy in question.

Are you still in the area ? I have moved out to Kings Bromley but still get to Sutton on occasion. Chris.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Just to clarify Scotch-Bright comes in many forms. There are 11 grades of industrial abrasive versions equivalent to the finest wire wool to a bunch of steel shavings so beware of generalising.
Then in the domestic situation they produce a variety of pan scrubbers which contain no abrasive and are just plastic of various hardness.

Of course there are also non branded versions of all the above which might use different colour coding so another trap for the unwary restorer. Halfords do a pack of 3 grades of the abrasive loaded if you want to experiment.

Since wood stoves were mentioned. If you have one with a glass window do you clean it with damp paper and wood ash ofr the stubborn bits? This points you to a very mild abrasive (wood fibre) and a coarser version in the ash.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Water and wood ash also gives you lye so you have a mild caustic cleaner.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Just to throw in something completely different; the motorcyclist's favourite for de-rusting decorative chrome etc is Coke/Pepsi rubbed in with crushed aluminium kitchen foil.

Wipe it off with paper towels and oil it immediately.

It's effectively a very gentle phosphoric acid cleaning, rubbed in with something which is both relatively hard, compared to cloth/paper, but soft compared to the iron of the bed.

It really does work.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Coke is really good for cleaning up copper based coins. Some people wont drink it when they see what it does.

While at school a friend who knew that I had cleaned a car asked if I was interested in going car cleaning to earn some pocket money. It went well. One person had a rusty bumper so I told him we had some special chrome cleaner but it was expensive. He made an offer so I took it along and he was very pleased with the result. That lead to a number of them being done. Eventually some one asked if they could smell it. Ok and he said he could smell Vim.

I'd mixed Vim, water and a detergent called something like Ticket that was used to get wax of cars and used it to remove rust not chrome. Rather like rust on cast iron. Rust is soft. The base metal isn't. Only problem really is that chrome rusts through pin holes but regular waxing helps with that.

Suddenly no one would let us clean their car so I was left with rather a lot of TurtleWax shampoo. We tried coach cleaning for a while but the pay was low for the time it took and was too much like hard work.

I'm a long way from Sutton now Chris.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/02/2016 10:12:08

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