Restoring a steam engine

[NoviceParticipant @novice]

Hi,

 

Recently I was given a 1-cylinder steam engine that had been used for instruction I think.

The cylinder and steamchest have a  cut-out so you can see how it works.

The thing had been in a neighbours front garden for several years and is a bit rusty now. This means nothing can be moved now.

I only could take of the chestcover.

The whole thing is sprayed with WD-40 for several times (soaking wet), but nothing helps to make things move.

Can anyone out there give suggestions in order to me help me to get things removed so the parts can be taken to a grit-shop.

 

Like to put some photos but don’t know how this works.

They are in a file in my PC

 

Cheers

Jan

[NoviceParticipant @novice]

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

Hi Jan

Try chucking the whole thing an a bucket of diesel oil and leaving it for a few days. This used to work with ancient motorbike engines {JAPs etc}

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Jan,

                 To include pictures in a post you first have to upload them to “My photos”  (To do this clock on “My photos” near the top left of the web page.) Once you have them there you can add them to a  post by clicking on the “Insert image” button. (Next to right button at the top of the box where you enter the text .)

Les.

 

[NoviceParticipant @novice]

 

Herewith some of my photos.

Thanks Les

It does work

Jan

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Jan

 

How big is this beastie? If that’s a bike wheel in the background then dumping it all in a bucket doesn’t seem a viable option!

 

Norman 

[NoviceParticipant @novice]

Hi Norman,

it is a bike wheel at  the background!!

The thing is 60 cm high, 40 cm depth en 25 cm width.

And it is HEAVY

 

Jan

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

My suggestion would be to use any or all of penetrating fluid/diesel/heat from a blowlamp/plenty of welly from tools. Main problem is that using tools may well break something as it does look rather corroded.

 

I think this would be a long term project, perhaps applying diesel or penetrating fluid over a long period of time, weeks even, followed by heat from the blowlamp and gentle persuasion with tools.

 

Heat from the blowlamp does work, but it does tend to be rather spread out. A better bet might be to find someone, a friendly garage perhaps, who would be prepared to use an oxy-acetylene torch: these tend to be much more concentrated and hotter. Don’t forget, that’s how your garage man undoes rusted up parts on your car!

 

Possibly I would look at replacing some of the smaller parts.

 

Good luck, you’ll need it.

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Looks interesting. Will agree with soaking in diesel, for as long as it takes, use old bath, sink, cut down plastic tub,etc. every now and then tap bits with hammer, it will eventually free, then take off steel bits and use electrolosis. You will most likely need to make some parts if you want it to run.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jan, WD40 is good stuff, penetrating agents are far better. Follow this link for an ideal type of fluid. You should be able to find local engineering supplyers for this.
http://www.arrowchem.com/arrowchem/web.nsf/DC/Penetrating%20Agents

 

There are of course many good makes of industial penetrating fluid around, Plus Gas used to be a good one, but I don’t know if it is still available.

 

Regards Nick.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I saw Plusgas in a local hardware shop about 3 months ago.

First time in over 30 years.

regards David

 

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

A supplier of Plus Gas wasn’t difficult to find – here

Edited By Steve Garnett on 10/11/2010 19:42:07

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

Some years ago I helped a friend in restoring older cars, stuff that looked this bad often needed more than penetrating fluids, heat (awful fumes), nut splitters, etc, usually came into play.

Lots of it was along the line of Peters comments.

 

Good luck with an interesting project, look forward to seeing photos when it’s finished.

 

 

Another supplier of Plus Gas.

http://www.toolbank.com/83/p/PLG803

Edited By V8Eng on 10/11/2010 21:58:14

[adyParticipant @ady]

I’ve held back because I think he’s an ebay seller dood.

 

Got anything you’ve done before?

 

I have input if you have output, sir.

(and gawd knows this project needs it.)

Edited By ady on 11/11/2010 00:03:10

[russellParticipant @russell]

three suggestions:

a mix of kerosene and diesel is supposed to be a very good penetrating agent (like Penetrene, not sure if that is an Aus product only or more widely known)

 

Secondly, often used by vintage type restorers, is molasses in water – very slow (think weeks) but gentle – removes rust back to clean metal. Need a big bucket (bin?), and soak. I used a few cups to 5 galls water.

 

thirdly, look up electrolytic derusting. Basically electroplating in reverse, with a steel or stainless steel anode, and your item as the cathode, in a water with a few spoons of a salt – i use caustic soda, cos that helps with paint and grease as well, but washing soda is also used.

 

regards

 

russell

 

 

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I would agree with Russell on the electrolytic method, but I would recomend using washing soda instead of caustic, cos caustic removes skin quicker than it removes paint. Washing soda will remove most paints that I’v tryed it on.

I’d start at the top of the engine. Get a big plastic bucket, something to put the bucket under to suspend the engine in the bucket, set up for the electrolytic process. It may take a day or two, pull it out and disassemble as much as you can, then dunk it in a bit further. It would pay to chip off the lose rust, and you may find a nut splitter very handy. The nuts are proberbly old type Whitworth (big ones), on reassembly try and use the same size. Some say that milk is a good rust remover, or maybe Coke a Cola.Ian S C

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

A pal who was an instrument mechanic used to swear by Coca-Cola for getting obstinate gunk out of delicate mechanisms, and I have used it for getting seized screws out of gun actions. It needs a really long soak, and I doubt its practicality for Novice’s formidable project.

[BogstandardParticipant @bogstandard]

For something large to soak it in, your local council supplies them free of charge.

 

Wheelie bins.

 

One of the half sized ones should be perfect.

 

Rust removal

 

Page 3 (no, not the Sun) seems to be the most appropriate.

 

Bogs

Edited By Bogstandard on 11/11/2010 10:53:59

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Mike, The Cola is just a hi-tec vertion of the citric acid method. Your best place to get citric acid is the local home brew shop, its a white poweder. Large plastic bucket of water, mix in the citric acid, the amout is not critical. You can leave things in for a few days, after soaking scrub in fresh clean water. Ian S C

[Howard JonesParticipant @howardjones35282]

this sounds really down market so will probably be frowned upon.

if you fill a big plastic tub most of the way up with clean water and then crush up a dozen ripe lemons and put the pulp and juice into the water, skins and all and swirl it around.

then drop in the rusty bits and about a week later they will be rust free.

of course the rust has pitted the surface so you wont get new surfaces.

a wire brush, a rinse off and some light oil to prevent further corrosion or do the drying off and paint the item.

 

check the items each day, some will clean up quicker than a week. it works.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Another product you might look at, and should be available at more sensible cost than some as well, is “brick acid” as used in th building trade to clean mortar splashes/stains off brickwork. I think some is “muriatic” acid while other brands may be based on phosphoric possibly with hydrochloric. Have a chat with your local builders merchant. As the stuff is sold for use on large areas of brickwork on site sensible ppe (pvc gloves and goggles) should be sufficient and disposal pretty easy.

From other advice I’ve seen, the recommendation with “Coke” is to go for the cheap own brands rather than proper Coca-Cola.

Keith

Edited By Keith Long on 11/11/2010 11:36:04

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Bogs, just been reading the thread in the link in your post. I have heard of this process before, but never knew the technicals. Very imformative and I recomend others to read it also.

 

Regards Nick.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Muriatic acid is another name for hydrochloric acid, or spirits of salts. It is actually hydrochloric acid dissolved in water, since the acid itself is a gas at normal temperatures. I don’t know if it is any good for removing rust, it is certainly good at causing rust.

 

Phosphoriic acid will convert rust to a phosphate compound which is stable and can be painted over. It is ususally used on fairly clean pieces as a pretreatment, if you read the bottle it will tell you to remove all loose rust first. The cola allegedly contains phosphoric acid, I don’t know if that is true or not.

 

Citric acid is quite often available in the supermarkets.

 

I think the electrolytic approach is actually the best of these, although I have not used it myself. But the results I have seen look very good. 

 

Where it is not possible to immerse items, mechanical removal becomes the only approach, which is to say lots of hard work. I have been helping clean up a Tangye “Archer” engine at the local transport museum, it has rust that is deep enough to have begun pitting the surfaces. The best thing is a type of flap wheel, not the ones with foam between the layers, but made up only of sanding cloth. This is turned at around its maximum lable speed of 9600 RPM with an angle grinder with an adaptor. It takes time and patience, but this can bring a surface back to a really good quality. Another thing that is quite good is a sanding disk backed by a rubber pad on the angle grinder. They don’t want to be too coarse, the coarse grit seems to lose its edge quickly while a finer one will keep cutting. Either approach takes care to avoid rounding the edges on flat surfaces, but with practice you can do a very good job.

 

regards

John

[NoviceParticipant @novice]

Thanks you all for your input in this rusty problem.

I think I have enough to think about and give it a try one after an other.

Anway the whole process will take some time, whateveer method I am going to use.

Let you know about the results whenever there are any.

 

Kind regards,

Jan

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I understand that cheap coke is very popular with people who buy job lots of rusty old woodworking tools at boot sales.

 

I use the electrolytic method, it’s quick but take care to wash then oil the parets very quickly on removal as the clean surface is very reactive.

 

Neil

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