Registering with various Merchant’s sites

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Hi everyone, I dropped in today at a well known supplier of tools for the Hobbyists engineer.

Firstly: I got an abrupt notice telling me about ads and cookies which help the Site pay their bills (This is true of most if not all sites now). This implies that I'm responsible for them making a loss? Yet here I am trying to spend my meager amount of cash at a site that wants me to Cow Tow to it's wishes.

I run Ubuntu and whilst I use it I haven't had any influence as to how it works ie It seems to stop a lot of ads flooding my computer and for that I am grateful. There's no ad blocker in use by me. The reason I believe that ads remain unseen are due to mainly because ads are aimed at MS. Oh yes I well remember running AD AWARE at the end of every session on line. One of the reasons I dropped MS among many other reasons.

Next comes the REGISTRY! Why do I want to register with every supplier that I use on the net? I don't is the answer but the supplier wants me to so they can send emails about the products they are pushing one supposes. But now I can't even buy their wares unless I do REGISTER!

Please explain the logic me no comprendo.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

No thank you!

[Anonymous]

I don't know about the ads, but as far as I know the cookie thing is an EU diktat, so that you know that small programs are being downloaded to your computer. Practical result – sweet FA, as those who know about cookies know that they get downloaded, and those that don't are simply confused.

As for registering it's a consequence of the dummies in marketing, there's no logic involved. For commercial suppliers that I use on a regular basis via an account it is fine, and saves typing in ones details for each order. But for suppliers I use infrequently, or possibly only once, it's a right royal PITA. Unless you write it all down, then when you use the supplier a year later, having forgotten the login details, the website smuggly tells you that the email address is already registered. The main result is that the supplier doesn't get any business – pretty smart marketing by the supplier.

I've just changed the black cartridge in my Samsung laser printer, and in order to get a return label for recycling you have to register. The upshot is that the cartridge will probably go in the bin.

Andrew

[Capstan SpeakingParticipant @capstanspeaking95294]

E-shop packages tend to be off-the-peg website add-ons.

They are set to mine as much data as possible. This is intended for mail shots, analysis and selling on. Sometimes they even sell to spammers who have no more right to live on God's clean Earth than a weasel.

It isn't necessary, it isn't right but it's the world we have.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose it works both ways, by registering you may get the odd e-mail that does not interest you in which case just delete it. On the other hand on more than one occasion I have taken advantage of discount codes, promotional offers, etc which I would not have got if I was not registered with the supplier.

More do seem to be offering the "checkout as guest" option though which I tend to use if I'm unlikely to use that source again.

J

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

My favourite hate is the *demand to provide a telephone number, if you ignore it, red flags light up. Alternative? some systems are happy with a ".", others count the digits, so all they get is the 0*** followed by 000000.

If you do provide a number they print it on the address label for all to see and mine is Ex Dir, so they do not get one!!

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

It isn't necessary, it isn't right but it's the world we have.

And, sadly, that's the price we pay for the convenience of shopping online. I don't like it either, but it beats driving to Dunstable, Mytholmroyd or, indeed, Shanghai to fetch the stuff in person, pay cash and avoid the marketing departments. Perhaps not too much to put up with in the greater scheme of things.

Pete

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The good thing about giving a phone number is you may be lucky to get a text that will say your item will be delivered between x and y times which is usually a 1hr slot, beats staying in all day.

Also I have had the odd call from the courier who could not find the place of delivery or get an answer particulary if I'm getting items delivered direct to site and may not hear them if in a far off part of the house or outbuilding or have power tools running.

J

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Kwil, I must remember that one. Capstan, Weasels help keep the vermin down don't they? But I know what-cha mean. And your right about the data mining.

Andy: I've actually dumped printers rather than buy their outrageously priced cartridges.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 11/05/2015 15:24:57

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Jason,

My landline does not work with texts!!

K

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But nothing to stop you putting in your mobile number. Well unless you don't have a mobile.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Only when it is switched on

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by JasonB on 11/05/2015 15:25:06:

But nothing to stop you putting in your mobile number. Well unless you don't have a mobile.

Where I live there's no signal for a mobile, so that wouldn't work.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I actually agree with all that has been said above about the continual nosiness of firms of all sorts and have taken some steps to avoid some of them.

If you are using Yahoo, including the BT version for now, it is possible to set up a system whereby you have one email address, say "thisisme" and you then follow it with a dash "-" and then whatever you want, you can set up a specific email address per person or company, or whatever. The address looks something like this: [email protected]. As far as Yahoo is concerned, there is only one email address, [email protected], however all the addons get forwarded to that address so in effect you can have up to 200 (or 500, I forget which) separate addresses. What this means is that if you don't want to be bothered with a particular firm, then after you've given them this address and received your goods, then you can simply delete the "thisisyou" part. Hence they can no longer get to you. The downside is that you have to set it up individually before you logon to the particular firm.

Unfortunately for BT Yahoo users, you (and me) are to be migrated away from BT Yahoo so although it works as long as you are on BT Yahoo, it, apparently, won't work afterwards. Of course, there is no reason why you shouldn't set up a Yahoo account specifically for this purpose.

I understand that a similar system applies elsewhere.

For what its worth, the BT email system allows you to have a main account, and up to 10 secondary accounts. These secondary accounts can easily be deleted and created, although once a name has been created and deleted, that's it, it cannot be reused. This could be another way of defeating them, eg set up a secondary account "idonotwantyou1", then when it is deleted, the next one could "idonotwantyou2" etc.

Another idea is to program your email system, Thunderbird, Outlook Express, to recognise the firms name or something to do with the firm and then automatically delete it. I did this for all those emails advertising viagra, cialis etc and managed to get rid of most of them. Of course, you have to be able to set it to catch all the variations they use, eg viagra, v1agra, etc.

Another trick with 'phone numbers is to deliberately miss out a number somewhere, preferably one of the last four digits to avoid causing unnecessary problems for other innocent people. As the UK system still has mixed length numbers, any catch-all system for this must accept variable length numbers.

Hope this helps.

Peter G. Shaw

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I find on some sites that it is the ad-servers that are particularly slow and freeze the page half complete until the ad which I dont read trundles along.

This site has a load of facebook sourced junk that seems to screw up the 'back' button.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I have several strategies:

1 – always shop with the same email account, so any spam generated will always go to eth same place.

2 -be religious about marking unwanted emails as spam and blocking the sender.

3 – use a simple procedure that can't be guessed by others to generate your site password that looks like gibberish but doesn't require you to remember it. You might need a fallback procedure for sites that don't let you use symbols.

4 – make sure your email provider spam settings are set to suit your needs.

My mytimemedia email is pretty well know, but I get almost no spam – what I do get are usually genuine offers from chinese engineering firms who think I might be a customer. My gmail gets all the 'dearest Stub, I have $40,000,000' but I just click junk and it disappears.

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Lordy, Lordy, Jesse

As Andrew said, 'the cookie thing is an EU diktat' to try and bring in a certain level of protection for the customer. On ARCs site, this information is descent ..in the bottom right corner of the site…rather then 'in your face'.

All websites in the EU have to comply. Some cookies are necessary to make the website function correctly. Other cookies are for collecting information for various reasons…mainly marketing related. Prior to the cookie policy, a website you would be visiting could plant almost anything they wanted onto your computer to get more information about you.

For example: prior to the policy, I could, if I wanted to with appropriate paid software, see the exact name and address (I.P location) of the person visiting my site, and see each aspect of their behaviour on my site 'in real time', without the visitor knowing anything. A kind of 'invasion' of privacy.

Post the cookie policy, to the best of my knowledge, such practise is prohibited in the E.U.. It is possible to see how many people are on your website, looking at specific pages, along with geographic locations for example, but no disclosure of a persons name or I.P location is made.

Prior to the EU diktat, there were many other cookies which were planted without the users knowledge. The essence of EU diktat was to bring in some level of control over the way things were going in the wild wild west. Reputable banks and web payment gateways in the EU demand to see some level of control in place with the cookie policy, along with demonstration of other security measures, when considering to grant a website the use of their services.

As a web based business grows, such compliance requirements grow too…along with related penalties for non-compliance.

Continued below..

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/05/2015 20:16:33

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

REGISTRATION: I agree to a certain level that one should be able to shop anonymously. On the other hand, there are various reasons for registration based around security issues. As a seller, we want to know who we are dealing with. For example: When you buy through our website, we only obtain an authorisation to collect specified amounts. We have security software in place which checks every authorisation. In addition, once the order comes into our system, we have a certain level of history for every customer. If we have had bad dealings with the person in the past, we can and may refuse to accept the order and 'abort' the payment authorisation.

Other examples relate to 'potentially fraudulant' orders, orders from Russian courier companies operating in Peterborough, Portsmouth and Southampton, who keep changing postcodes in specified areas because they know we will not supply to third party courier companies. There are some readers on here who have even had phone calls from us to verify identity or confirm that 'it is really' them who have placed the order, because even though the account is in U.K., the fraud screening payment software shows the I.P location of the computer from which the order was placed is in China!…There are valid reasons for such orders being placed from elsewhere, but where ever possible, we have to practise due diligence, regardless of order value.

There are many other examples of security reasons for registration.

One of the other reasons is this: A customer calls to say: 'I purchased xyz from you and I need assistance with it/claim. I don't know when I bought it. I do not have a receipt'.

Or usually from companies 'our credit card statement shows that we purchased abc worth X, and we have not got an invoice for it'….their engineers usually throw the invoice which was sent with the goods into the bin, rather than give it to their accounts department.

If you live outside U.K. Mainland, the registration process allows our system to calculate correct shipping costs to overseas destination.

So, in ARCs case, there are many reasons why you can only buy on-line after registration. Yes I agree that there are counter arguments and answers to all of the above, but this is just the way we operate. I also know that there are many loop holes.

MAIL SPAM AFTER REGISTRATION: At the time of registration, ARC registration process asks customer if they want to get newsletters. If the customer doesn't want it, they do not fill in the request. If they want it, they fill in the request. When they get such emails, they can 'unsubscribe' at any time.

NON PROVISION OF TELEPHONE/MOBILE NUMBERS: In this day and age, speed of delivery is becoming more important. If ARC or its courier service provider has a query (if sent by courier), we need to communicate fast with the customer if certain queries/situations arise. In ARCs case, if there is no telephone/mobile number, we avoid processing the order, unless authorised – mainly by me. YES – our loss, and YES I know there is email

In all above situations, ARC does not sell the customers information to anyone. YES, couriers have customers numbers on the courier waybill/receipt, and this is there for logistical reasons. In ARCs case, where mobile numbers are provided, the customer receives text messages from the courier company and/or an email if any email address is given. Most of the time, we have found that this has been very helpful for all concerned, to reduce non-delivery issues in the U.K.. It would be great if certain courier drivers could read the receipt, and call the number in case they are unable to deliver…but then again, that is another story.

So Jesse, I hope you comprendo…even if you disagree with what I have said.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/05/2015 20:17:50

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I don't doubt a word you say Keton why would I? I'm teed off with having to spread my name further and further across the net thus making my transactions and data more vulnerable.

Either that or conjure up fresh passwords which unless careful note is taken then as Andrew says is a right PITA no matter which way you look at it.

I am told that transactions take place in a safe area and that my identity won't be sold on etc etc. However where there's a will there's a way. It may not be used by you but I have personally met people employed by GPO who have stolen or used mail to their advantage.

I was employed in a company where the top boss used to say "we have to run just to stand still in this business". I sympathies with your plight Ketan but that won't help you, we all have our crosses to bear.

I've had email up dates but you can be sure I still wait in all day until the parcel has arrived. I'm sure you have read some of the horror stories on here, well I'm in the same boat as those who can ill afford to loose money and yet some have.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 11/05/2015 20:15:12:

Some cookies are necessary to make the website function correctly……………………..

…………Prior to the cookie policy, a website you would be visiting could plant almost anything they wanted onto your computer to get more information about you.

That's something of an over-simplification.

Cookie policy or not, a website cannot "plant almost anything they want" if the person concerned uses the security features of his browser properly. Back in the day, one could simply configure the browser to block all cookies (as well as scripts, java etc) if he was of that mindset and that would fix the problem. The odd site would work a bit funny but you could live with that.

Then the website creators got inventive. They deliberately incorporated cookies (and scripts) left right and centre without which the website wouldn't work at all. Not that those cookies are strictly "necessary to make the website function correctly" per se – but they have been made necessary in that particular implementation. By doing this so ubiquitously, they have essentially forced users to forgo the protection that their browser offers if they want to visit almost anywhere on the web at all.

And lets not even get started on the demon Flash Player.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 11/05/2015 23:07:45:

And lets not even get started on the demon Flash Player.

.

Yes lets. That piece of software, like most things made by Adobe is a bloody virus.

Acrobat reader, 16 million gig down load, slows the computer right up, takes 10 minutes on gas mark 5 to boot and for what ?

Just to read a page.

Plenty of other software out there than can do it faster and leaner, Foxit is one for a kick off.

Flash is no longer needed for video and movies, it can be written directly in HTML5 IF the programmers could be bothered but most are so idle they take the path of least resistance and use Adobe's add on as it's only a click.

Anyone name one other program that need a update weekly ?

[Author]

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