Boiler tested and OK

[Red DotParticipant @reddot]

Thank you Lofty76, that is most helpful.

There must be many modellers such as myself who do not have access to a club. I had been reading this thread, as I was a little worried about the calibration of the pressure gauge used for testing. If I were to buy a certified test gauge, there is nothing to stop it from being damaged in the post whilst it is on its way to me. As I have already indicated, I will buy two different gauges and see how they compare. If they indicate very similar readings, then I will settle for that. Otherwise, I will buy a third, and see how that compares.

It is difficult to see how else I can proceed, unless I go back to first principles, and start adding pound weights to a piston with an area of 1 square inch!

Many Thanks

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Hello Red,

I was lucky to come upon a dead weight tester that use to check model gauges, but I take my various test gauges to a local diving firm that do my gauge calibrations and issue the UKAS (NAMAS) certificates.

A general calibration would result in a gauges errors being recorded, i.e. a table of measured test pressures and and resultant deviation from those applied pressures, I don't think i've seen many even new gauges being without some small errors, so checking one gauge against another could result in a 'test of two running clocks, – which one is correct?

One thing I would point out is that even being a boiler tester, I'm not permitted to test any boiler that I have built myself.

Have a look in your local directory for either a diving business or one that deals with LP compressor testing, most will offer a calibration service for a reasonable fee.

Lofty

[Red DotParticipant @reddot]

Thanks Lofty. My thinking had been along the hydraulic route. Once you take the pneumatic route there are also other possibilities – fire stations and tyre depots spring to mind. I will investigate.

I take your point about 'two clocks'. My idea was to get two, and go for a third if the first two differed. If I end up with three and they are all quite different, heaven knows what I will do.

Much of the code clearly relates to best practice when testing boilers, and I will do my best to follow it. However, a lot of it seems to be concerned with creating an audit trail. Working on my own means that I will not be able to comply with much of that.

Both the boilers that I want to test have CE marks – one is from Maxitrak, the other from Polly. A third bolier (when it is finished) will be homebuilt.

Thanks again for your input, it is very much appreciated.

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Lofty….what do you understand by the requirement of the Codes of Practice to PSSR2000 that a boiler inspector /competent person should be a of "incorporated engineer status"?

Mick

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Hi Mick,

Is that with reference to commercially manufactured boilers in particular?

The new ACOP refers:

3.9 Inspector:
a. This is a person who is competent to examine and report on all
parts of the system as covered by the Test Code. An inspector
shall not be permitted to examine or test either his own work or
equipment in his ownership but he is permitted to test a boiler
which is owned by his Club or Society provided that he did not
participate in the building or repairing of the boiler. An
inspector shall be a member and appointed by the Committee
of the Club or Society under whose name the boiler is
examined and/or tested after such persons have satisfied the
Committee that they have the appropriate level of experience
and/or qualifications.

Personally, I attained T(Eng) CEI (Aeronautical Engineering) in 1977 which is now incorporated, and is fully acceptable by the current society as I have also had a long relationship with high pressure equipment and compressed gasses, so passing the experience/ qualification requirements on both counts.

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

If you are going to buy 2-3 uncalibrated gauges to use to test your boiler with, I would go for 2 different physical sizes ( 1 inch and 1.5 inch) and also different pressure ranges (0-150psi and 0-200 psi) and to be sure from different manafactures/suppliers. If you buy 2/3 the same from the same supplier then you run the risk of them coming from the same batch and all could be out by the same amount.

I would buy a calibrated gauge (2 inch or so) and only use it for testing boilers or checking your own gauges. (Then get it recalibrated every 2 years)

Remember that a test carried out or witnessed by yourself is not valid for insurance reasons.

I am a 16mm association boiler tester, and when I want to test my our boiler (or the cert/insurance cover) I have to have 2 other members perform/witness the test under my supervision. (They have to sign the documents as tester/witness as well)

Dave

[Red DotParticipant @reddot]

Steambuff – thanks for the advice on buying pressure gauges. We seem to be thinking along exactly the same lines.

As regards testing/witnesses/insurance, well I am forced by my location to work alone. So the models will only ever be driven on my track, and will not be carrying the public. As I am not able to meet the normal requirements, I am not able to take out insurance. That having been said, I do intend to take all necessary precautions to avoid creating a large bang with me at the centre of it!

Thanks again for the advice.

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Lofty …..thanks for that information, which I believe is from the Model Engineer liaison Group, Boiler Test Code .

I was specifically referring to paragraph 106(a) of the Code of Practice pursuant to the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000. This states that for "minor systems", there must be "at least one member of staff qualified to incorporated engineer level with adequate relevant experience and knowledge of the law, codes of practice, examination and inspection techniques and understanding of the effects of operation for the system concerned." Unfortunately the law does not allow anyone, even the MELG, to pick and choose which parts of the legislation we wish to comply with. As far as I can establish there is no mechanism by which the Boiler Test Code can override PSSR 2000 and the Code of Practice otherwise than by a specific exemption from the relevant Secretary of State.

I have no desire to be difficult over this, but the Regulations have been in effect since 21st February 2000 and it is only now, 12 years later, that "written schemes of examination" and "competent persons" have made an appearance in the MELG Boiler Test Code.

I am concerned that there may be many experienced "boiler inspectors" who can spot a wrong 'un from 100 paces yet be disqualified by PSSR 2000 and Code of Practice because of technical lack of qualification. We ignore this at our peril because if there were to be an "incident" where the authorities were to become involved, the owner of a boiler given a ticket by an "unqualified" tester will undoubtedly be picking up the tab.

Mick

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Mick,

Are you referring to the paragraph – 106 The attributes needed for competent persons who draw up or certify schemes of examination relating to minor, intermediate and major systems….?

The emphasis is on 'Draw up or certify schemes of inspection'

This is carried out by the Southern Federations Boiler test Sub-Committee in conjunction with PSSR 2000 and as agreed and underwritten by their Insurers Footman James.

As SFMES Boiler inspectors do not draw up schemes of examination they do not, per se, have to be incorporated engineers, merely competent persons as registered with the SFMES.

Of course if the inspector is NOT a member of one of the Federated Societies both Southern and Northern, then of course they would not be covered by the indemnities provided.

Hope this helps

Lofty

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Lofty….thanks for that and my apologies for causing you to dig out stuff from that Code of Practice at tea- time Boxing Day.

I lappreciate your interpretation of the term "competent person" which seems to have several different meanings depending on which page of the Code you happen to be reading at the time. I believe that this would provide plenty of wriggle room in the event of a claim……but that is one for the lawyers.

I think that it is regrettable that the sledgehammer approach of PSSR 2000 has only just been realised when we could have been there at the consultation stage and possibly had provisions more closely tailored to our interests, especially those to whom club facilities are not available.

Seasons greetings.

Mick

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