1 HP single Phase motor for mill

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1 HP single Phase motor for mill

This topic has 28 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 27 September 2022 at 14:46 by Steviegtr.

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23 September 2022 at 15:57 #614613
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
I'm looking for a single phase motor about 1 HP for my Hayes Milling Machine can anyone recommend a reliable make/supplier please ?

Thanks
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23 September 2022 at 15:57 #34079
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
23 September 2022 at 16:42 #614620
john fletcher 1
Participant
@johnfletcher1
I suggest you contact your nearest Model Engineering Club, as there are lots of Model Engineers doing a 3phase motor/ inverter conversion on their lathes and mills and you might be lucky with them. Also, you could see the motor running and check the mounts are suitable for your machine. John
23 September 2022 at 17:27 #614628
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Hi Carl

Do you need a Foot mount or Flange mounted motor, also what speed 1400 or 2800 and does the shaft diameter have to be a specific diameter ?

Emgee
23 September 2022 at 18:18 #614636
An Other
Participant
@another21905
Hello, Carl,

I'm sorry – not writing with a suggestion, but an enquiry/suggestion.

Are you making a straight replacement (damaged motor perhaps)?. If that is the case, could I suggest you consider replacing the single-phase (and presumably single speed) motor with a three-phase motor and control its speed with a VFD? This will probably also provide soft start/overload/reversing facilities as well.

Admittedly this is a little more expensive, but using a three-phase motor will improve the running a lot, (more torque, smoother) and you can also use a slightly smaller motor if its 3-phase, since you need to replace it anyway.

I replaced the useless standard motors/controllers on my Far Eastern Mill and Lathe with this combination, and they were improved beyond comparison. Wish I had done it long ago.

Regards
23 September 2022 at 18:59 #614644
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
I have a perfectly good one HP single phase motor (and a reversing switch, with wiring).

Removed from my mill when I replaced the drive with a 3 phase motor. I think it is a TEC motor.

PM me, if interested, for details.

Edited By JasonB on 23/09/2022 19:19:59
23 September 2022 at 21:03 #614663
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
Thanks for the replies everyone.

It has a 3 phase motor, a British Thomson-Houston 400/440 1.6A 1390 RPM foot mounted at the moment but was bought as is and had been standing for a long while so not sure what state the motor is in or how to test it. I am confident with single phase but not sure on 3.

I have looked at inverters and think a decent one is almost £200 so am looking at alternatives although I understand 3 phase is the preferred route to take ( or an inverter as An Other says.)

On the subject of 3 phase, I am lucky to have 3 phase at the property, well to the meter. I got a price to wire up the workshop from there and was quoted just over £ 600 ! this by a company I had used before and seemed OK, I thought it was a bit much. Any electricians out there who have a rough idea what fair pice would be ? Workshop is a single garage next to the bungalow, cable run 20 yards roughly.
23 September 2022 at 21:09 #614664
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Any electricians out there who have a rough idea what fair pice would be ? Workshop is a single garage next to the bungalow, cable run 20 yards roughly.

I’m not a sparky but would expect there to be wide regional variations, so a location would be good.

Over or underground? Would you do the excavations, if underground? All necessary details for even a rough idea.
23 September 2022 at 21:56 #614669
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
Sorry lacking a few details there…

There is 3 phase into the house next to the meter. ( i think because there used to be storage heaters in the bungalow) and it ends in an old switch/fuse box which would need up-dating. There is single phase supply to the workshop already but was tempted to 3 phase until I found out the cost.

The cable would go up from the the hallway/fusebox into the roof, along to the other side of the house, down the outside of the bungalow, under the path ( 2 yards) up the side of the garage into the workshop.

I would do all the cable laying the electrician would connect up to switch/fuse box from the meter and the fuse box in the workshop and sign off. I'm in Suffolk.

Jason, have PM'd you re. motor.
23 September 2022 at 22:03 #614671
Steviegtr
Participant
@steviegtr
Are you sure it is 3 phase. We many years ago used to install storage heating. It used a what's called a white meter with a time clock. In the night time the white meter charged up the storage heaters & was at a lower unit cost. It was on the same phase as the standard meter.

Steve.
23 September 2022 at 22:31 #614677
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
What type of power supply do you have coming into the service fuse ?
Is it PME, sheath earth from underground supply or overhead with no earthing supplied by the provider ?

Do you just want to have a 3 phase (+N) supply sufficient to power the 1HP motor ?

Emgee
23 September 2022 at 23:07 #614682
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
It's definitely 3 phase all electricians who have seen the supply have confirmed and been surprised its there.. iand as far as I know PME sheath earth as it is underground supply, large diameter armoured cabled.. the reason it is here ? I thought it may have been something to do with when the estate was built, used by the builders ? I can't remember who said it may have been the storage heaters. As far as i know no neighbours have it and it can't have been put there by a previous owner as the house single phase comes off it,

It would be just for one 1HP motor, although maybe 2 other smaller as I have the old 3 phase motors for the Myford and Denford wood lathe( both less than 1HP) . which I think would affect cable diameter so that would need to be decided.

Carl
23 September 2022 at 23:21 #614684
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Carl

I don't doubt it is a TP&N supply as that was the norm during the 1960's and 70's in domestic premises that had night storage heaters fitted, it was to help ensure a reasonable balanced load on phases.

Emgee
24 September 2022 at 12:09 #614730
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
I’m. Not sure why my earlier post was interfered with. JB has not had the curtesy to tell me why.

lf he unilaterally thinks the reversing switch and wiring has a problem, I would like to hear about it.

For Carl’s info, the reversing arrangement is not the flimsy set-up as often fitted to fymords.
24 September 2022 at 12:38 #614732
Rod Ashton
Participant
@rodashton53132
I have Warco 1hp motor with soft start and reversing, also comes with the Warco lamp. £130 collected SE Hants if it would help.
24 September 2022 at 12:59 #614733
Martin Johnson 1
Participant
@martinjohnson1
The starting capability of a sngle phase is much worse than a 3 phase, so if your mill doesnt have a clutch you need to uprate the nominal power you fit. My TS mill had a 1 ph cap start cap run BCPM motor (from new seemingly), that give much more starting torque. You will struggle to find such a beast at hobby prices. I replaced the TS 1 hp motor with a 1.1kw TEC which is horrible for noise and vibration.

Go 3 phase if you can.

Martin
24 September 2022 at 13:23 #614738
Vic
Participant
@vic
It may be worth checking the existing motor to see what condition it’s in. I had an Elliot Omnimill many years ago with a three phase motor but I was able to swap over the connections in the motor and I ran it on single phase for several years like that. The only thing I needed to add was a large capacitor, total cost about £12 I think. You only get about 80% of the rated power but mine ran just fine. I made some notes about the wiring at the time. They’re in my Album 1 if it helps. Running three phase motors on single phase is also covered in the Workshop Practice series number 24, Electric Motors in the home workshop.
24 September 2022 at 15:08 #614747
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
3Phase was quite common for night store or blown hot air heating, I had the dubious honour of often taking them out after 30years of service. one of the element units and its fan assembly are still in my workshop. If you go for 3Ph don't forget you WILL need neutral ! Noel.
24 September 2022 at 23:38 #614820
Carl
Participant
@carl48656
Thanks all again for more info, 3 phase keeps getting recommended if possible I see.

I'll also look at the capacitor and single phase route, thanks for the clear diagrams Vic.

Yes Emgee the house is 60/70's era.

More research..

Cheers Carl
26 September 2022 at 18:09 #615067
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
I just checked the Inverter Drive Supermarket prices for single phase motors of about 3/4 Kw and they are about £170 which is almost twice the price of 3 phase ones. So if an inverter was factored in, the price of going 3 phase is not quite so bad. That firm also have their own quick start guides for some of the inverters that they sell which makes it easy for those of us who are not electrical engineers to wire up and programme, including remote controls for speed and reversing if needed. The guides certainly render it uneccessary to run begging for help which is a regular occurrence on this forum.
26 September 2022 at 18:41 #615072
Vic
Participant
@vic
Strange, they are both about the same price on Machine Mart, about £115.
26 September 2022 at 20:51 #615088
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Not sure why inverter drive supermarket would be really trying to market single phase motors.🙄
26 September 2022 at 21:03 #615092
Vic
Participant
@vic
Posted by not done it yet on 26/09/2022 20:51:02:

Not sure why inverter drive supermarket would be really trying to market single phase motors.🙄

Maybe they’re offering single phase motors at inflated prices to make their inverters look more attractive?
26 September 2022 at 21:41 #615099
Andrew Tinsley
Participant
@andrewtinsley63637
The Machine Mart motors that I have seen in use have been noisy. I would pay a little more and get a quieter motor and I suspect a better quality motor to boot.

I am not getting into the classic "quality" arguments often voiced on the forum!

Andrew.
26 September 2022 at 22:09 #615103
Steviegtr
Participant
@steviegtr
Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 26/09/2022 21:41:29:

The Machine Mart motors that I have seen in use have been noisy. I would pay a little more and get a quieter motor and I suspect a better quality motor to boot.

I am not getting into the classic "quality" arguments often voiced on the forum!

Andrew.

In my some 50+ years as an Electrician, I never heard a noisy motor of any kind. Unless it was duff of course. I have a 3ph 1.5 Hp machine mart one on the Myford & a 3Ph 1Hp TEC on the Mill. both are pretty silent in operation. The machines themselves are quite noisy but not the motors.
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