WM280 Lathe runs in reverse only

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WM280 Lathe runs in reverse only

This topic has 48 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 9 May 2017 at 17:55 by ChrisB.

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5 May 2017 at 22:48 #296613
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Right, so I have recently bought a WM280 lathe from Warco and after unboxing and cleaning it from the sticky wax I gave it a try to confirm it's working fine.

Power on with no issues but when selecting FWD nothing happens, if I put it to reverse it operates correctly, spindle turns and auto feed operates when engaged.

Is there anyone out there familiar with this lathe who could guide me to some trouble shooting, if I'm doing something wrong or what should I check before contacting Warco?

Edited By ChrisB on 05/05/2017 22:49:15
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5 May 2017 at 22:48 #32966
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
5 May 2017 at 23:12 #296621
John Rudd
Participant
@johnrudd16576
Rather than accepting speculative responses, I suggest you direct your question to Warco forthwith….otherwise you could just be timewasting….I guess this is not the answer you were hoping for….

Edited By John Rudd on 05/05/2017 23:13:13
6 May 2017 at 04:41 #296640
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Too true, JR. Not mentioning possibly voiding the warranty.
6 May 2017 at 06:25 #296642
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Agreed, it is my intention to contact Warco. I just wanted to be sure I was not doing something wrong from my end, for example when I first switched it on and tried it, it would neither go fwd nor reverse – the chuck guard was open (silly me)
6 May 2017 at 06:45 #296643
jimmy b
Participant
@jimmyb
when I first switched it on and tried it, it would neither go fwd nor reverse – the chuck guard was open (silly me)

Done that on every lathe I've had!
6 May 2017 at 08:33 #296652
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
I agree this is probably one for Warco, but I think you could look at the wiring behind the headstock without voiding the warranty.

You know that the motor and VFD are OK because the lathe works in reverse. That suggests a minor electrical fault and points the finger of suspicion at the reversing switch SA1 and the wiring between between it and the controller.

The wiring of these lathes is untidy and it's possible that something has come adrift in transit. Check to see if any wires are loose and that the terminal screws are tight.

Don't do anything that might void the warranty! Apart from the irritation of having to sort out a new lathe, it's Warco's problem.

Dave
6 May 2017 at 08:33 #296653
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
The problem I will have is that not being located in the UK, probably I will anyway have to take it apart myself to see what's wrong – sending the lathe back for inspection is out of question for obvious reasons. I'll contact Warco anyway just to see what they recommend, but the way I see it, I'm going to have to fix this…let's hope it's just a loose wire!
6 May 2017 at 08:51 #296659
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by ChrisB on 06/05/2017 08:33:42:

The problem I will have is that not being located in the UK…

'm going to have to fix this…let's hope it's just a loose wire!

That changes things! If it's not obvious, put pictures up and ask some questions. There are smart electrical types and several 280 owners on the forum.

Good luck,

Dave
6 May 2017 at 09:21 #296664
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Thanks Dave, I just opened the front panel holding the F/R switch and On/Off switch to have a look, apart from a blown lamp on the On/Off switch everything looks fine, no loose wiring etc.

Next I checked voltage on the F/R sw in both forward and reverse directions, voltage readings are the same for both directions so the F/R switch should be fine. Supply on the On/Off sw is ok, and same with the emergency stop button. The problem must lie deeper inside the headstock, either in the VFD or the contactor.

Will post some pics later on this eve
6 May 2017 at 09:42 #296667
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Hi Chris,
As the lathe uses a VFD the reversing is probably done by the VFD. The reversing switch probably just routes a low voltge control signal (Probably 12 or 24 volts) to one of two input terminals on the VFD. If you were supplied with the manual on the VFD then it should show which terminals select forward and reverse. If you don't have the manual then you may be able to find it online. I agree with the comment about contacting Warco before looking at the problem yourself.

Les.
6 May 2017 at 09:55 #296669
John Rudd
Participant
@johnrudd16576
Here's a link to what I think may be the manual….

https://www.galco.com/techdoc/dlpc/vfd007m43b_um.pdf

If you look at the inverter display when powered up, it should display the direction either fwd or rev…..that would indicate( no pun intended) that the inputs to the inverter are ok….
6 May 2017 at 10:26 #296676
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Hi Les, Checked the voltage on the reversing switch, points 9 and 10 show 240v, points 2,5 and 7 gave 50v.

I have the VFD manual and a CD, it's the same as the one linked by John. I'll open the back cover later and have a look at the inverter display…fingers crossed

Thanks for the help.
6 May 2017 at 11:30 #296683
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Sadly a sign of the times. Brand new central heating boiler refused to fire up, luckily after contacting manufacturers help line, after various checks, internal wiring incorrect on assembly at factory. Multi-point water heater needed diaphragm changing cos water not getting hot enough, Diaphragm has moulded in "O-ring" type edge. Although heater had been working OK for about four years, original factory assembler couldn't be bothered to make sure it was "In the groove".

ChrisB, Shoulda gone to Arc euro.

Regards Ian.
6 May 2017 at 14:26 #296720
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Hi Chris,
I don't think the lathe is wired the way I was expecting. I think the switch connections showing 50 volts (I assume your reference point is ground.) are probably driving relays. I don't have a wiring diagram for your lathe so I would only be guessing how it is wired.

Les.
6 May 2017 at 17:12 #296737
John Rudd
Participant
@johnrudd16576
Les,

I'd be very surprised if the fwd/rev function was achieved thru driving interposing relays, would mean having to provide separate dc supply….and the cost factor..

We really need a schematic if assistance is needed…..after Warco have helped….
6 May 2017 at 17:48 #296739
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Hi John (And Chris),
I have found that I have a schematic for the WM250 (VFD version) and I have made some notes in the past.I suspect that the WM280 will be very similar. This is the schematic.

These are the notes I made.

Notes on WM250 schematic

Contactor KM

A1 & A2 are the coil
43 & 44 (NO) are the maintainer contact

Suspect
2T1 & 1L1 Normally open contact
4T2 & 3L2 Normally open contact
6T3 & 5L3 Normally open contact

Start/stop switch SA
Start button will be the top two connections (1 & 2) (Normally open contacts)
Stop button will be bottom two connections (1 & 2) (Normally closed contacts)

Suspect that connection 2 is common and 5 and 7 are forward and reverse

Forward/reverse switch SA1
I suspect connections 9 & 10 will be closed in forward and reverse. (And open in the middle position ??)

END OF NOTES.

I think the common, forward and reverse contacts on the switch go to the VFD via three sets of contacts on the contactor.

Chris, WITH THE LATHE DISCONNECTED FROM THE POWER can you do the following continuity checks.

Forward/reverse switch Contactor VFD terminals

2 ——————————— 1L1

5 ——————————— 3L2

7 ——————————— 5L3

2T1 ———— GND

4T2 ————- M1

6T3 ————– M2

The if you can manually close the contactor do the following continuity checks while holding the contactor closed.

1L1 to 2T1

3L2 to 4T2

5L3 to 6T3

You should get continuity in all these tests.

Les.
6 May 2017 at 18:07 #296741
NJH
Participant
@njh
I really think your first route should be to speak to Warco. You have bought an item from them and it does not work. If that happened here you could contact the supplier and get them to take the faulty item away and either replace it , fix it or give you your money back. I can't say that those rules apply where you are but I suggest that your first port of call should be to the supplier. I don't doubt Les's knowledge of things electrical but I would want to involve Warco in the process .

Norman
6 May 2017 at 19:19 #296751
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Hi Les, the schematic is identical to what I have on the WM280V-F manual so it should work out for me. I'll do those checks tomorrow morning and post an update. This afternoon I opened the switch covers an had a quick look inside before I left for work, wiring is not the tidiest I've seen but everything looks in place, nothing loose. Included some pics of what it looks like. I'll have a closer look tomorrow, maybe I missed something.

Norman, I have contacted Warco in the mean time explaining my problem – I'm trying to troubleshoot and identify the faulty component, it would be much easier that way rather than just telling Warco that the lathe is not working ( I'm not expecting them to come over and check the lathe out, just as well as I'm not going to sent the lathe back!)

Edited By ChrisB on 06/05/2017 19:20:21
6 May 2017 at 20:14 #296755
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Apart from being untidy, the wiring diagram looks a lot different to most other VFD controlled machines. However the schematic itself is not very informative (its not clear what is inside the various boxes on the diagram) so working out how it functions without having the thing in front of me is not easy.

It appears that the interlock switches are at mains voltage which is not ideal.

The filter (ZF?) does not appear to filter anything.

Where is the speed control potentiometer? (not relevant to Chris's problem but shows poor documentation)

What is the contactor for? Most (all) VFDs have logic that eliminates the need for an electromechanical relay

Warco's electrician has some odd ways of working, if it was my lathe I would rewire it!

Ian P
6 May 2017 at 20:29 #296758
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
The contactor on Chris's lathe (like mine) is a Siemens 22E. That's left me confused because the spec says it has 2 normally closed and 2 normally open contacts, which I have yet to understand given the circuit diagram.

Anyway, ignoring that, Forward and Reverse are selected by grounding VFD terminals M0 / M1 respectively. M0 and M1 are at 5V. Grounding is done via the contactor, presumably so that the lathe stops as soon as any of the interlocks are broken.

An easy check is to flip up the hinged cover at the base of the VFD. (It's marked with the yellow warning triangle in the photo.) Lifting it reveals the control screw terminals which are labelled helpfully. M0 and M1 are on the left of the terminal block and the ground terminal is first right after M5. M0 sets forward mode. M1 is reverse. If you're lucky the M0 wire has fallen out.

With the lathe powered up and the motor on with forward selected, there should be 0V on M0. With reverse selected, there should be 5V on M0.

Dave

PS I don't think the bulb in the On/Off switch is connected.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 06/05/2017 20:35:34
6 May 2017 at 20:32 #296759
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
I have just had a further look at the photographs Chris posted.

Warco would do well to heed their own advice and use an authorised electrician (whatever that means). When I have been involved in machine tool wiring there were rules and regulations covering the work.

One glaring omission is an earth bonding wire to the detachable panel, there also seems to be a white cable passing through a hole in the enclosure and no grommet visible. None of the wire ends are identified that I can see. Using a 'chocolate block' in mid air is just crude and inexcusable.

I'm a lot less than impressed!

Ian P
6 May 2017 at 20:44 #296764
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by Ian Phillips on 06/05/2017 20:32:00:

…

I'm a lot less than impressed!

Ian P

With respect, let's try and keep this thread focussed on helping Chris sort his problem out. I've no objection to Ian airing his views on machine wiring; but please start a new thread to do it.

Thanks,

Dave
6 May 2017 at 20:53 #296766
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Posted by Ian Phillips on 06/05/2017 20:14:03:

Apar

Where is the speed control potentiometer? (not relevant to Chris's problem but shows poor documentation)

Have another look it is on the diagram, shows poor eyesight
6 May 2017 at 21:02 #296768
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Dave

My motive in the reply I gave is relevant to solving this particular machine fault although I probably should have made clearer that when checking voltages related to the fwd/rev wiring, it needs to be born in mind that there is mains voltage present.

In one posting Chris mentions he got a voltage reading of 50V which make no sense on any level (Mains/logic/interlocks or whatever). Its not clear where the voltage was actually referenced to but its erroneous or misleading either way.

Since this is not my lathe I have no grounds for beefing against Warco, but for a well respected company I would have expected a better turned out product.

Ian P
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