Another Workshop lighting problem

This topic has 20 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 5 June 2019 at 20:12 by JohnF.

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15 October 2018 at 10:11 #376022
Dave C
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@davec87625
I have 4 twin fluorescent light fittings in my workshop. 5ft and all less than 18 months old and bought new. They are not the kind that require the plug in starters.

My issue is that 99% of the time they all work fine but occasionally 1 or sometimes 2 of the fittings / lights will not come on. Not always the same light or lights. It can be quite random and infrequent when it happens. They are all wired to one light switch in line from one light to the other ( Series ? )

If I repeatedly switch the light switch on and off a couple of times this tends to bring them all back on and then the issue may not happen again for a few months ?

I was considering replacing them for LED's even though the light fittings are relatively new ( 18 months ) Is the issue likely the fittings or another electrical issue and am I likely to get the same problem with LED fittings.

The light switch is a twin with the other switch controlling the external light which has never given me an issue.

The light fittings were from 2 separate well known DIY stores.

Any help appreciated please
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15 October 2018 at 10:11 #26238
Dave C
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@davec87625
15 October 2018 at 10:16 #376023
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
I am not an electrician but could it be loose connections/wire[s]?

Tony
15 October 2018 at 10:41 #376024
Frances IoM
Participant
@francesiom58905
how cold is the workshop?

too cold and some tubes will not fire – it is possible that the electronic ballast is ‘too clever’ and having determined that the tube won’t fire has assumed a faulty tube and switched off until restarted by re-application of power.
15 October 2018 at 11:23 #376027
Dave C
Participant
@davec87625
The workshop is brick and thermollte block construction with cavity wall insulation so never gets too cold to be honest.
15 October 2018 at 11:37 #376031
Mark Rand
Participant
@markrand96270
Try wiggling the tubes back and fourth a bit in their sockets. Could easily be a poor connection to one of the heaters.
15 October 2018 at 13:14 #376048
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Posted by Dave C on 15/10/2018 11:23:36:

The workshop is brick and thermollte block construction with cavity wall insulation so never gets too cold to be honest.

The workshop is presumably heated continuously? On a thermostat?

If not heated, the area will eventually assume external ambient temperature. The insulation simply slows down the heat transfer in or out, so extending the time temperature changes take place (depending on the delta between outside and inside – and assuming no air changes due to draughts).

Do you mean one or two fittings (twins) do not illuminate – or one or two tubes?

If they are all 230 volt units they will be wired in parallel.

I would think it will be temperature which is causing the problem. Is the ‘few months’, without any problem, time of year related?

I have two ‘starter’ type flourescents in two adjacent rooms (but no door to separate them. One is over 40 years old and always strikes within about a second and has only had one replacement tube (if at all) in that time, while the other, which is only 25 years old, has gone through several tubes, often fails to strike (particularly when cold) and always takes 2 seconds or more to strike.
15 October 2018 at 14:20 #376057
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
Dave C – Who did the wiring. If done by a professional or someone who understands mains wiring and was technically capable they will be in PARALLEL. If they were in series, then each fitting would only get 240/4 = 60 volts each. Probably not even light up at all !

How far is the lighting circuit away from the house incoming mains ?

Have you checked what sort of voltage you get on the lighting circuit ?

BobH
15 October 2018 at 14:39 #376059
pgk pgk
Participant
@pgkpgk17461
Changing to leds doesn't mean you throw the fittings away but you do have to be comfortable with removing the ballasts and rewiring according to the led tube type. I did one of mine about 18mths ago and if memory serves there was enough wire in there after dumping the ballast to make the change-over with the judicious use of one auto bullet crimp connector.

pgk
15 October 2018 at 15:16 #376065
Peter Bell
Participant
@peterbell11509
A friend had a a similar problem, ie nothing wrong and new lights and it turned out the electronic ballasts were voltage sensitive and the incoming supply was occasionally too high causing them to shut down at random. He cures it by switching a water heater on when it happens.
15 October 2018 at 16:01 #376075
Dave C
Participant
@davec87625
I may have the wiring information wrong. I thought that it went from one light and on to the next etc until the last one but without stripping the lights I am not sure. They weren't fitted by myself I am just going from memory when I lined and insulated the ceiling. The cables are in the roof space and there isn't access now.

As for the temperature, I can go into the workshop and the lights work fine, come out after an hour or so for a brew then when I go back in I can get the problem. It is the complete light fitting ( Both Tubes ) that don't work. Not even a flicker as if they are trying to come on. Flick the switch on and off a few times or even come back later and they work fine.

As I say it can be totally random as to which fitting fails. The supply in the workshop is from the house approximately 25 feet away and supplied through 16mm buried cable to a consumer unit in the workshop. A 10 mm cable then carries on to another outbuilding which has its own lighting and consumer unit and gives no issues at all.

I have noticed that the light fittings give off a steady ticking sound for a while when they are switched on for 5 / 10 mins or so. I wasn't sure if it was them just warming up or something ?????

I have had the wiring checked when the replacement consumer unit and a separate breaker were fitted for the workshop supply as per a previous thread of mine. It is only since the light fittings were swapped for the new ones approx 18 months ago that the issue has arrived.

It is more the nagging inconvenience than anything else. I had always assumed that it was just down to the quality of the light fittings but it happened yesterday so thought I would throw it out there.

I will get somebody in to check them incase there is a fault on them somehow.

Many thanks
4 June 2019 at 13:58 #412544
Roger Hart
Participant
@rogerhart88496
Time to dredge up this topic?

Now repainting the workshop and looking to replace the 6 foot 85Watt fluorescent tube with some sort of led fitting. There are what look to be led striplights about 4 to 5 foot long but it looks to need two to get up to or over the old 85Watts. I am just a bit concerrned that 'led watts' do not amount to 'proper fluorescent tube watts'.

Workshop is only 2.5metres by 3.5 metres with normal height ceiling. Any advice?
4 June 2019 at 14:24 #412553
Colin Whittaker
Participant
@colinwhittaker20544
Roger,

LED watts seem to be twice as bright as fluorescent watts, at least for normal bulb lights. I think it also holds for tubes.

An alternative cheap and efficient light source is the mini 220V LED flood lights. I've used a series of 10W LED floods for dazzling effect.

Colin
4 June 2019 at 14:27 #412554
Frances IoM
Participant
@francesiom58905
600 x 600 mm 35W panels mounted within surface mounting “boxes” – the driver fits on top of the panel in the box with the light forming the base and access via a removable side panel (available from most electrical trade dealers eg TLC , City Electrical) – choose daylight (cool blue if you use the workshop mostly in day – warm (less blue) for evening as blue light may make sleep more difficult – if you are comfortable adding a RF remote switch in the box you can control individual lights without any rewiring – the original switch will switch off all – I use this to add panels over individual machines – ideally you want light coming over left shoulder (assuming right handed)

Edited By Frances IoM on 04/06/2019 14:28:11
4 June 2019 at 14:34 #412555
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
LEDs are much more efficient at producing light, so LED watts are the makers 'guess' at the light output, and not at all the consumption of power. Usually.

So, you should find that the standard versions offered as tube replacements are a bit brighter – mine are. Just be sure that you choose the colour balance which suits you best – I prefer Daylight or cool white, others tend towards the warm white which is closer to filament-lamp colours.

Cheers, Tim
4 June 2019 at 15:17 #412558
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
I replaced two of my flo tubes which were several years old and the light output had deteriorated with two led lights and what a difference they made I had not realised how poor my flo lights were

H
4 June 2019 at 15:58 #412565
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
You do realise that these flourescent tubes contain mercury? See the current ‘quicksilver’ thread!
4 June 2019 at 19:32 #412626
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Leds I have bought were Watts consumed with the light output rated in lumens.
5 June 2019 at 19:06 #412794
Nick Hulme
Participant
@nickhulme30114
I had double fluorescent tubes fittings throughout my garage and singles in my workshop, the LED replacement tubes give better working light than the fluorescents ever did.
I chose LED replacement tubes and rewiring the fittings to eliminate the ballasts, part of my reasoning for this route is that the parts which will eventually fail are an easy user replacement, whereas dedicated LED fittings commonly require replacement of the full lighting unit when they fail.
5 June 2019 at 20:00 #412806
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
I'm switching over to LED tubes as the fluorescents age. One of my fittings is at least 50 years old and has no starter as such. It always either comes on pretty much straight away, or if it's really cold just glows until I give the tube a rub. Can this be converted to take LED tube, or is it time for it to meet it's maker?
5 June 2019 at 20:12 #412810
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Dave I fitted these in my workshop a couple of years ago to replace 2 ancient 8ft fluorescent fittings, there is also a relatively new 4 ft florescent over the bench so did not reface that.

Much brighter than the old 8ft ones and more economical

John
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