What Did You Do Today (2016)

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/11/2016 12:35:09:

Did you edit-out the website link, Danny ?

MichaelG.

Oop's. Here it is http://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better-tying-tools/toms-vise

I like the principle but don't expect to copy the fancy woodwork, probably stick to all metal construction.

The carbon fibre jaws are interesting and they are easily swapped out if required.

The basic idea is to have the hook shank concentric with the axis of rotation and turn the handle to wind on materials (which is the opposite of what I currently do).

Anyway, I am looking for a new workshop project that is fun. I intend to post progress reports once work is underway.

* Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 08/11/2016 02:35:20

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Danny

I'm not a fisherman, and probably never wil be … but this style of vice is very versatile, and designs are of wider interest.

MichaelG.

[Anonymous]

Yesterday I let the CNC mill get on with making a pinion to match my previously made internal gear. I've learnt a lot about my CAM system and how to get around the odd toolpaths that it generated. In fact rather more than I really wanted to learn. Here's the roughing stage:

And here's the pinion and previously made internal gear in mesh:

The pinion needed a little work with needle files to clean up the tooth surfaces before it would run smoothly in both directions. But the theoretical clearances are small, less than a thou in the original 1DP gears before scaling down to 10DP for manufacture.

It's rather pleasing that the gears run together, given that they have both been designed from first principles, starting with the equations for the involute curve.

The next step is to look at the mathematics behind the various types of interference that can occur with internal gears and pinions.

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 08/11/2016 11:49:14

[fishy-steveParticipant @fishy-steve]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 07/11/2016 10:11:52:

Finally caught a trout on a home made fly (Royal Wulff).

It is amazing the buzz one gets from fooling a trout with a few feathers and a bit of red wool made by ones own hand.

Anyway, checked out a website and found a few pointers. Not sure about the ' O' ring bearings but it's a start and gave me plenty of ideas.

The carbon fibre jaws are an interesting twist .

* Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 07/11/2016 10:14:38

Edited By Danny M2Z on 07/11/2016 10:31:49

Hi Danny,

Take a look at the LAW vice designed by Lawrence Waldron. Still classed as the Rolls Royce of fly tying vices. The original is no longer being manufactured and brings silly money on the second hand market. I handled one at a fly tying show many years ago. It had a lovely precision feel to it.

Keep us posted as I for one would be very interested.

Thanks,

Steve.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Gears look good Andrew.

Did you use separate cutters for the roughing out and then a small bull nose to do final shape and leave the radius in the corners?

Also does the CAM software make the machine do all the work on one tooth and then move onto the next or does it make the same pass on each tooth then reposition in Y&Z before making the next cut on each tooth?

J

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Jason it looks as if Andrew roughed the teeth out in steps judging from the photo.

In Art's Gearotic program it roughs the tooth space out as a groove then moves the cutter sideways as it revoles the 4th axis to catch up and then takes a series of shaving passes with the side of the cutte. Usually 8 or 10 but this can be edited.

The result is you get a gear similar to a Sunderland cut gear where each shaving pass blends into the next.

Maths ????

We don't need no stinking maths, we just fill boxes in. Better that one person is in charge of all the calculations instead of every Tom, Dick and Harry coming up with different figures.

[Anonymous]

Posted by JasonB on 08/11/2016 17:32:22:

Did you use separate cutters for the roughing out and then a small bull nose to do final shape and leave the radius in the corners?

That was the original intention. Rough out with a 3mm ballnose cutter, then swap to a 2mm ballnose to finish roughing. The lower part of the tooth space is a little under 3mm in width so one cutter can't do all the roughing. Finally the 2mm cutter is used to do a profile pass with a small stepover. Since I designed the gear from scratch the radius at the root was conveniently chosen to be 0.04", so a 2mm cutter would be fine.

In the 2½D CAM functions there is an option to cut each feature to final depth before moving on, or alternatively cut all features to the same depth before moving to the next level. That doesn't seem to be an option for the 4th axis. It's an area where my CAM program is a bit weak.

I had some issues with the CAM system not doing what I wanted, and the generated G-code not following the displayed toolpath. By the time I'd sorted it all out I had the 2mm cutter doing everything. This is a one off gear and I couldn't be bothered to go back and use different cutters for roughing and finishing. I just left the CNC mill to get on with it while I sat in the study and did a days paid for work.

The method apparently used by Gearotic would be a better way of doing it. However, Gearotic simply doesn't work for me; I've just tried it again and within a minute it had crashed. Second time around I did get to look at the G-code generator. But it's very messy, and for the life of me I couldn't see a button that would actually generate a toolpath or G-code?

As for the maths, it's hardly complicated, just secondary school geometry. I was going to say complex, but I can't see how complex numbers would come into gear design. Unless the gears were conjugate of course (mathematical joke). As and when I make another spur gear on the CNC mill I'll write my own G-code; it isn't difficult to work out the geometry and thus toolpaths..

Andrew

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I may have missed something from here in my armchair workshop, albeit one that is currently on a tour of China ATM, but presumably you chose not to simply use the Tormach (in "pure CNC mode" ie no rotary table, just X and Y movement) with a small cutter (2mm?) parallel to the axis of the gear. The likes of Fusion would use adaptive clearing to ensure even chip load etc and as long as your backlash etc is in control, should be capable of doing a good job of it. As well as deriving the tool path from first principles (only because you can!), this would have been a thoroughly modern approach.  

Murray

Edited By Muzzer on 09/11/2016 13:18:12

[Anonymous]

Posted by Muzzer on 09/11/2016 13:16:08:

I may have missed something from here in my armchair workshop, albeit one that is currently on a tour of China ATM, but presumably you chose not to simply use the Tormach (in "pure CNC mode" ie no rotary table, just X and Y movement) with a small cutter (2mm?) parallel to the axis of the gear.

That was plan C, plan B being to dump the fillets at the root and just use a 2mm endmill rather than a ballnose cutter. The endmill would be cutting primarily on the sides and so would be capable of faster feeds. If I was going to use plan C I'd have whizzed round with a 6mm cutter, then a 3mm and finally a 2mm cutter for roughing. And then the 2mm cutter again for finishing. The gear is 3/8" thick; I'm not sure a 2mm cutter would be happy at that depth for a finish pass, so I would have needed 2 or 3 identical passes at inceasing depth. I don't think my 2mm cutters have 10mm long flutes? I'm not sure if tooling marks parallel, or perpendicular, to the rotation axis are best?

If I was making the gear in anger I'd have knocked out a proper form relieved involute cutter on the CNC and then cut the gears on the dividing head.

It's wet, cold and 'orrid here, but at least it's not humid. I hope your armchair is air conditioned, and that the new workshop isn't, ie, the builders got the roof finished before the rain.

Andrew

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Andrew

Sounds as if the "proper" 4th axis has just come out. John Saunders has been having a quick play with it but it clearly does more than just basic indexing. Looks just what you are after!

Murray

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Over last two or three hours I've carded around 50 files, still got 20 odd to go. Boring job, worn out 1 card completely, now on the second one. Most of the bits are aluminium filings. Have had to resort to a scriber to remove some of the bits.

Is there an easy way to remove the stuff that will not remove with the scriber or card. Can I soak them in some solvent or another.

Thanks,

Colin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The ultrasonic cleaner does a decent job of getting ally out of small files.

What did I do toady? Well found some Jovilabe time – hooray! Then worked out how to play Louie Louie on the mandolin (not a huge challenge!)

Neil

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Alu chips stuck in files, dip them in caustic which will eat the alu. Rinse in hot water afterward.

Clive

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 12/11/2016 20:32:51:

Alu chips stuck in files, dip them in caustic which will eat the alu. Rinse in hot water afterward.

Clive

forone horrible moment I though Clive was recommending dipping one's flies in caustic, then I re-read it.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Where's the best place to get suitable quantity of caustic soda.

I will try the ultrasonic cleaner, its sat next to the bench but never gave it a thought.

Colin

[Nathan SharpeParticipant @nathansharpe19746]

Which version Neil? For the Kingsmen I can get away with Am/D/Em/C (on Guitar) for a suitably amateur sound ! Nathan.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

You can buy caustic soda in Homebase for starters. I think I got a "basics" type product of aroung 500g for a fiver or so.

I don't think it was this one but may just have been labelled differently. In the cleaning products department.

Edited By Muzzer on 13/11/2016 04:27:18

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Started today on my new fly tying vice. Salvaged a pair of needle roller bearings from some pre-loved pulley wheels and turned a shaft to fit.

0.4375" was the original shaft diameter which working backwards turned out to be 7/16". The bearing outside diameter is 0.502" which I assume is a press fit into a a 0.500" hole.

After turning the shaft to 0.429" using a conventional HSS tool in the C3 I switched to a shear tool to finish the job. The swarf came off like delicate spider webs. If you have never tried this tool then please consider grinding one, the turned finish is excellent.

* Danny M *

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Fusion 360 November update gives a handy overview of the simultaneous 4th and 5th axis CAM functions, as well as a host of other new features.

Don't forget – if you get stuck, the Autodesk F360 forum is very active and generally you will get an answer very quickly if you post a query. 

Edited By Muzzer on 13/11/2016 07:59:33

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Missed a digit, I actually turned the shaft to 0.439" before using the shear cutter.

Sorry about the typo

* Danny <M *

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A good method of file cleaning is to get a length of copper tube, 12" x 1/2" would be fine, flatten one end, and use that end to scrape across the file along the grooves, the copper will take the form of the grooves and clean them out to the bottom. Its not fast, so do it before you have a pile of 70.

Ian S C

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 13/11/2016 08:18:29:

Missed a digit, I actually turned the shaft to 0.439" before using the shear cutter.

Sorry about the typo

* Danny <M *

Just as well or there would have been some words inappropriate for a Sunday. As the Remembrance Service is not until 10:45 I get to sit in front of the fire, listening to the test match and armchair engineering when I should be raking up leaves.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Hi Bazyle. I went to the service a 1100H on the 11th.

As an aside, I once planted some poppies for an old friend one chilly August day.

On the 11th of November (Australia) the poppies bloomed. It brought a tear to Betty's eyes. Her father was beheaded for daring to escape from a prisoner of war camp in Sumatra.

Anyway, made good progress on my fly tying vice, it's sweet what a well sharpened HSS flycutter can achieve with a block of aluminium alloy. The kerosine cutting fluid results in a rainbow finish.

Photos soon – decided to pretty it up with some brass fittings.

* Danny M *

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Tried out a drill chuck type sheet metal nibbler attachment, one of the doubleheaded £12-15 jobbies, i didn't use my B+D hand drill, but a corded makita SDS drill with a drill chuck on the end.

I needed to cut a large shape out of 1.5mm aluminium sheet for a lathe tray i'm making. It's not really very structural so i'm using angle plate/iron where possible to reinforce it and rivet the sheet together together.

Wasn't sure how good it would stand up next to a commercial air nibbler but wow, what a difference, so much easier to cut shapes out of large bits of sheet metal.

The only downside is it's hard to get a nice outline made up so i deliberately ran over the cutting line and finished it with a pair of tin snips. But still a large difference to the hard time i would've had trying to get away with saws.

Michael W

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

Re: cleaning files, i seem to recall an old wives tale that rubbing soap on the file before filing aluminium would stop it from sticking and clogging up the files. Has anyone else heard of this solution? Never tried it myself, but might be worth a shot. I'm currently filing some zinc/aluminium alloy (ZA27) but have had few problems with clogging so far. Most have been solved by a quick rub along the teeth with a wire brush (brass of course).

[Author]

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