Toolroom lathe?

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

Thanks thaiguzzi – a very useful point to consider

What is the maximum floor loading of a typical concrete garage floor?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Our American friends tended to use Toolroom to describe a lathe that comes with full equipment, eg chucks, collets, steadies, taper turning attachment et al. For example Southbend did a Toolroom version of the Heavy 10. I had a late D1-4 spindle one in decent nick. Worked well but definitely not up the the UK version of toolroom in the rigidity stakes.

Objectively any decent brand small industrial lathe with be more than up to home shop use if in reasonable or better condition. $64,000 question is are you more likely to find reasonable + condition at an affordable price by looking at toolroom lathes rather than the more ordinary breed.

I think SoD, Nick, MalcB and Bazyle are a bit overly pessimistic concerning the later life and likely condition of ex industrial lathes in this day and age. The CNC revolution and de-industrialisation of Britain has meant that a goodly proportion of manual toolroom machines never went into the hammer it to bits in a production environment once released from the toolroom. No jobs for them. As such they often ended up on very light duties where a lathe was occasionally needed. Maintenance shops et al. Lots of Colchester and similar modestly priced good specification lathes also went there too. Goodly numbers went into second and third tier workshops where they may have been quite heavily used. Some being worn out and some just getting scruffy.

My Smart & Brown 1024 VSL is an example of one that was rode hard, put away wet and generally left to get scruffy. £1,000 from a dealer "its in the way" was much more to my taste than £5,000 for a seemingly mint Hardinge HL-V or £2,500 for an equally smart late type Colchester Student. Bed wear is still almost negligible, saddle tightens up a bit more than ideal over the last 3 or 4 inches of travel but it does have excellent roller bearing guides under the saddle on each corner so inherently tighter than a normal lathe.

My view is that the generally more sturdy construction of most toolroom machines means it can put up with uncaring use for longer than a workshop machine. I'm pretty sure that a Colchester would have been in serious trouble after the life my 1024 had. My wartime P&W model B has clearly been worked hard and suffered somewhat but its still pretty darn good. Looked at a Holbrook D13 that really did look unhappy but it actually checked out well. Too heavy for me to move tho'. The 1024 is over 1 1/4 tons and that was seriously pushing things.

The 1024 has the advantage of being very simple. Reeves type variable speed drive, flat belt to the spindle, no clutch or headstock full of gears to wear out. Colchesters are notorious for folk fiddling with the clutches and messing things up good and proper.

The one exception to toolroom machine durability is the Hardinge. They don't do well in uncaring hands and have many "nice when new" details that last well if cared for but create major problems if neglected. Teflon sheet under the saddle anyone. Bit of a diva really.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 19/03/2019 11:52:21

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Smart and Brown model m has 4" centre line to bed height, 6.75" width across the bed and the carriage is 11" long along the bed. Looking at some of the more modern offerings with a larger centre line height I suspect they have proportions that are relatively smaller than this. It also has large bearing surfaces in contact with the ways and the tailstock runs on different bearing surfaces than the carriage.

Maybe if turning between centres having dedicated ways for the tailstock means that wear of the carriage ways will have very little effect on accuracy. Maybe this is a reason this lathe is referred to as a tool room lathe. It also weighs in at 750kg when on its cast iron/steel base.

Martin C

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

In my experience I can't see any difference in a so called 'Toolroom' lathe or a shop floor lathe. On the shop floor I have operated Dean Smith & Grace lathes with all the fancy gadgets you could wish for. DSG's are renowned for their precision and bullet proof build quality, and could be described as suitable for a 'Toolroom'. So why would a company hide away a top notch machine in a toolroom, when it would be far more productive on the shop floor?

The only difference I can see is that shop floor lathes are cleaned. Toolroom lathes are cleaned and polished!

Ian

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

To reiterate what has been said by jJson, Reg Pugh of Engineers ToolRoom never claimed, to me, that any of the machines that he sold were toolroom quality. Reg came from a toolroom background, hence the name of his company.

The BL12 – 24 is, in my opinion, a good, heavy, rigid, and versatile, machine, but I have said, more than once, that I would not claim it to be of tool room quality. It is larger, heavier, and much more rigid that the, at least secondhand, ML7 that preceded it..

Some 15 years ago, with VFD fitted, it came at a quarter of the price of a new S7 Sigma with the same accessories, AND has PCF. It was much easier to level, than the ML7, (i e the bubble in the level did not rush about if I looked hard at it! The ML7 was bolted to the bench; the BL12 – 24 sits on six 1/2 UNF setscrews and nuts, on angle iron cross bearers, onto steel 3" x 1.5"RHS beams. )

The 7 Series Myfords do good work, but are not in the same league.

Howard

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