Scrollsaw for the occasional user

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I feel an occasional need for a scrollsaw. Hegner seem to make the machines to aspire to but can anyone recommend a machine that performs reasonably well for an occasional user who will not need the ultimate performance but not want a machine that I have to do battle with to get a job done?

Mike

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

With some regret … I think it fair to say that even the 'best of the rest' will be a substandard clone of the Hegner.

It's the attention to detail that matters.

That said: I'm not entirely sure that recent Hegners are as good as the old ones.

MichaelG.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Dunno what sort of work you're expecting to do, but I just bought a Scheppach that's probably regarded as a cheapie, and temporarily pinched my B&D workmate back from the missus – who'd been using it for her drum carder – to mount it on. It vibrates and clatters a bit (maybe I should be using a finer-toothed blade) but I've cut out a couple of wooden toys for the grandkids, so I think it does what it says on t'box.

Edited By Mick B1 on 11/03/2019 08:38:47

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

What is it that you will be wanting to make is the first question. And what do you call occassional use.

If you intend on doing a lot of small intricate internal holes then a machine that can use the pinless blades s needed. You can cut thin metal on them as well with the correct blade so check the specs before buying.

Like many machines you have the cheap range but then there seems a gap and you then get the dearer ones of better quality.

I know of a few people that own the dearer Axminster saws and rate them very good.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

As usual Mike – it depends on what you are going to "occasionally" use it for?

I have an inexpensive (Aldi/Lidl?) scroll saw that doesn't see much use and is only used on thin (typically 3mm) ply and hardwoods, not metals. For my uses, it is fine and I couldn't justify spending a lot more for a "quality" saw. It has a degree of speed control, so might work with non-ferrous but as I've never tried it – I can't really say. I suspect it wouldn't be ideal and also that most of these low cost saws would be pretty similar in performance. For thicker wood stock – my bandsaw is certainly my preferred cutting tool.

However, if you want to make fine/accurate cuts in metal, say for clockmaking, then I think that you may have to spend a bit more on a quality saw.

Regards,

IanT

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Derek Lane 2 on 11/03/2019 08:57:11:

… I know of a few people that own the dearer Axminster saws and rate them very good.

.

That's useful to know, Derek

Are you talking about this range? **LINK**

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-trade-series-awfs18-scroll-saw-501201

MichaelG.

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

If you are wanting to cut thin metal occasionally then whats wrong with a piercing saw? If you want to cut thin wood then either a coping saw or a fret saw

Roy

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

I bought a Delta 2 speed scroll saw some years back, thinking it would be useful for metalwork such as crossing out brass clock wheels. It has not been a success. Even on the slower of the two speeds it is too fast for metal cutting, despite much experimentation with different blades. Blades don’t last very long, and break very frequently (with heart -stopping shock to the user!). It’s very good for cutting thin plywood, but I’m back to the piercing saw for metal.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/03/2019 09:06:50:

Posted by Derek Lane 2 on 11/03/2019 08:57:11:

… I know of a few people that own the dearer Axminster saws and rate them very good.

.

That's useful to know, Derek

Are you talking about this range? **LINK**

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-trade-series-awfs18-scroll-saw-501201

MichaelG.

Not that one but the ones just above it HERE with these the table will stay flat and the cutting head will tilt for angled cuts as well as be brought with different throat sizes.

 

Something worth watching is this there are two parts

 

Edited By Derek Lane 2 on 11/03/2019 09:39:51

Edited By Derek Lane 2 on 11/03/2019 09:41:26

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Not sure it is worth recommending any particular make for occasional use, as they aren't an easy tool to wear out, but if I were buying again I would look for variable speed and the ability to hold pinless blades so I could use decent metal cutting blades at an appropriate speed This would probably mean at a minimum Scheppach or Axminster machines in the £140-150 bracket.

Trouble is, I don't use my current machine enough to justify changing but each time I use it I regret having gone for a cheaper one – I reckon we have all been there though…

Brian

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have one of the 'Aldi' bargain scroll saws, it has variable speed & capability to use pin less blades with adaptor, it does thin wood fine but will only cut very thin brass with fine tooth blades. It has a tendency to wander from the 'straight line' which I've attempted to compensate for without a lot of success. I've put it on my toduit list for a concerted effort to figure out the run off, but as said, you pays your money,

George.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Just to point out that I do have a scrollsaw but it gets very little use unless i am making one of my models so mine is one of the cheaper versions. I use it mainly for small parts on my wooden models that I make like the one in my album. The model I have is this one which can also take the pinless type blades.

I would very much like to upgrade to those that I linked to earlier

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

I bought a Ferm scroll saw from Screwfix 15 years ago, cost about £40 , for occasional use. I've been delighted with it. For me occasional use has been a few time a year, cutting various woods for casting patterns, name plates mainly. Tilting table, essential for pattern making, single speed. The only failure was the squash ball thing that was supposed to blow the sawdust out of the way, the rubber failed, old age? A small brush works just as well. Ferm seemed to be Screwfix's low cost brand at that time, based on my experience with Screwfix in general I think I would try one from there current low cost range again.

John

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Thanks for the replies chaps, most useful. I suppose the jobs that I vaguely have in mind are wood type materials but it would be handy if metals and plastics were possible. Is blade type and speed the main factors that affect the suitability for different materials? Or does the frame mechanism play a part, rigidity etc.

It’s true that I should perhaps work on my fretwork skills and not add a machine that would not see a great amount of work, I suppose it’s more that I fancy one than have a pressing need for one. With my other equipment I had some experience to influence my choice and I am pleased with my choices. I have never used a scroll saw but have watched professionals at shows etc. who usually seem to use Hegner machines but if you are making your living from what you make with a machine then buying the best is a simple decision. I suppose what I want is a machine that will not put me off scrollsaws for life, if Hegner get 10/10 I am probably looking for the 6/10 area and avoid the 3/10 and less machines.

Mike

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I bought an Emco Unimat SL 1000 a few weeks back, and it has a scroll saw as part of the kit, it is small to suit the lathe. There were no blades with it, so first I tried a fret saw blade, that didn't last too long, then I took the pins out of a coping saw blade but found the standard blade too wide, so I ground a few thou off the back of the blade and it works well. I did wounder as the blade has no top tension.

I also have an ancient home made one that I bought for the 1/4hp motor, it actually works although I have not set it up.

Ian S C

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The main market for them is for wood cutting so the speeds for cheap ones are relatively high which burns out a blade on metal very quickly. The other problem is small movement so only a few mm of blade is being used but this is necessary because they don't move the blade vertically but just waggle the whole frame about a single pivot. Some try for a pivot on each arm and a parallel motion but it's still not the equivalent of a hand operation.

Seems like time for a MEW design for a steady long stroke machine.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Bazyle on 11/03/2019 11:39:18:

The main market for them is for wood cutting so the speeds for cheap ones are relatively high which burns out a blade on metal very quickly. The other problem is small movement so only a few mm of blade is being used but this is necessary because they don't move the blade vertically but just waggle the whole frame about a single pivot. Some try for a pivot on each arm and a parallel motion but it's still not the equivalent of a hand operation.

Seems like time for a MEW design for a steady long stroke machine.

A proper vertical motion could double as a filing machine. It looks as if the Hemingway kit comes close to the ideal apart from its limited cutting width.

Brian

Edit:  And it would be less expensive than selling my fretsaw and buying a better one – I'll have to think about that.

Edited By Brian G on 11/03/2019 12:06:27

[Bob McParticipant @bobmc91481]

I am with Roy Entwistle on this one, re posting :11.03.2019.

"If you are wanting to cut thin metal occasionally then whats wrong with a piercing saw? If you want to cut thin wood then either a coping saw or a fret saw"

Roy.

I will say however that the blades are inclined to break very easily because 'hand' control is not steady, but I found a simple way to help save the blades and I have cut 8mm mild steel for at least an half inch length before the blade had had enough.

It doesn't sound much but the alternatives are either drilling bashing and filing or going in for something expensive which could cause the 'Marital' arts to become the 'Martial' arts and the blades come in packs of about 10 and are quite cheap.

The saws do have a tendency to wander which doesn't help in keeping the blade in piece.

Picture shows piercing saw cutting two sandwiched pieces of 4mm mild steel for Mogens Kildes Double Diagonal Engine, the saw frame top rests on an engineers clamp which is inclined to give a guided cut in the right direction.

…Bob..

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Brian G on 11/03/2019 12:05:00:

A proper vertical motion could double as a filing machine. It looks as if the Hemingway kit comes close to the ideal apart from its limited cutting width.

Brian

Edit: And it would be less expensive than selling my fretsaw and buying a better one – I'll have to think about that.

Edited By Brian G on 11/03/2019 12:06:27

You can even get These for a scrollsaw.

Just out of interest I have nothing to do with Axminster Tools

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Please don't take this as criticism Bob Mc – but I break a lot less blades when I use the saw vertically and just let it drop into the work on the down stroke (e.g. let the saw do the work), just lifting gently on the return (up) stroke. I have done exactly the same [as you show in your photo] and that's generally when I've broken blades because it's so easy to move them sideways out of true, particularly in thicker materials (say 1/4" brass). I have a very simple 9mm ply plate with a 'V' cut in it that clamps to the side of my bench/workmate with two Axminster universal fence clamps (for their low profile – very handy).

Mike – from what you describe (e.g. occasional wood use) – I think an Aldi/Lidl type scroll saw would be fine and if you need different blade holders etc, they would not be difficult for most folk (at least those on this Forum) to make…

Regards,

IanT

[Bob McParticipant @bobmc91481]

Hi Ian T…writes…

"Please don't take this as criticism Bob Mc – but I break a lot less blades when I use the saw vertically and just let it drop into the work on the down stroke (e.g. let the saw do the work) etc."

No I certainly won't take it as criticism and I am only glad to hear how others tackle these problems… I will give your method a try out and see if it does the job any better, my only concern is that you say you use this method for brass which is a lot softer than mild steel…nevertheless thanks for your post … if it works I will give due credit.

rgds..Bob.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Yes, mild steel is harder (and slower) to cut Bob – especially when it's quite thick..

I've generally never been able to file/saw straight I'm afraid – but even I can get fairly good results 'freehand' with a piecing saw in brass. Provided you don't force it, it's quite easy to guide the cut. This is 2mm brass and I'm about 0.5mm above that line. All I then had to do was line a toolmakers clamp up with the scribed line, lay it in the shaper vice, remove the clamp and a few strokes later I had a nice edge to final dimension.

However for thicker material, it's much harder to do I agree – so for small straight cuts, I use the shaper to guide a Junior hacksaw blade – which works well – although of course it's not an option for most folk. I've recently made a new 'finger' for my finger plate (thought the "temporary" one I made some 10-12 years ago should finally be replaced with something a bit prettier). It's 3/8ths thick mild steel and using a hand saw I would have been all over the place. Doing it this way, it cleaned up quickly (and to size) – which probably would not have been the case otherwise!.

Regards,

IanT

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Or you can do it this way with a junior hack saw blade , and if you use something more powerful that a hot air motor with about 5Watts available it will chew through a bit of 1/2/12 mm rebar in less than 5 minutes, takes about 20 minutes with the hot air motor.

I have used it to cut the metal when building another motor, and when repairing the motor it was first designed for.

Ian S C

[Bob McParticipant @bobmc91481]

Hi Ian S C …

Are you saying you have an engine driving that saw! …it does look as if there is a boiler and a flywheel in the picture.

If that's the case its great if you have actually made and engine to do some serious work, would definitely like to see that running…!

Bob…

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