Purchasing a Milling machine

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Hi All

Im new here because I'm trying to research which milling machine to buy (based in UK) and I have no prior knowledge on the subject.

Initially I was planning to spend £800 but on inspection it seems I should spend a little more so that I future proof myself better, I can afford to stretch but i need to be mindful that I don't have any tools at all so these also need to be bought.

Mostly I will machine alloy up to around 240mm high (car uprights) but i also want to be able to use the mill to tap items… I don't care if I have to take smaller slower cuts, it will still be quicker than me driving to the machine shop 30 mins away each time.

Initially I was looking at the Warco VM16, its around £1k but there are lots of options from others around this price point with variations on spec and quite frankly I'm lost as to which is best. I spoken to a few of the companies and they are helpful but of cause can only advise on their own machines so can't really provide me a comparison.

These are the machines I seem to have on my list… should there be others I consider?

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/32-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/champion-20v-mill-3992-p.asp

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/century-mill-3993-p.asp

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/AMADEAL—AMAT25LV-Milling-Machine—Long-Table—Belt-Drive—Brushless-Motor—AMA_MI_AMAT25LV_MM.html#SID=373

http://spgtools.com/viewtool.php?pid=33

I want to stick with around £1k UNLESS its a much better machine as I need the extra cash for stand, vice etc, the Chester Century seems a good option but its £200 (incl delivery) more than the VM16, am i just getting greedy and better off spending that money on tools.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Andy

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Andy, you need to check the headroom on your mill carefully if you want to tap parts 240mm high, as the part plus chuck plus tap plus centre to guide it or tapping chuck plus whatever work holding device will soon add up. The same applies when milling depending on how you hold the cutter and work piece.

I have a 9" raising block on my Bridgeport which is one way to get extra headroom, maybe this is possible on the milling machines you are looking at.

Chris Gunn

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I do mainly motorcycle parts with the odd commercial ground keeping job thrown in as well. (mowers etc)

My Bridgeport has a 4" raising block and that gives me all the scope I need but do get close at times. If you have the space and patience to find a reasonable full size mill it may suit your needs better. I am though sure that someone with experience of the mills you are looking at will be better able to advise.

[Michael Bird 1Participant @michaelbird1]

If you are putting the mill on a bench make sure you have enough ceiling height. I have mine on a bench and luckily as I didn't check it just fits.

The WM16 has 370mm gap between table and spindle, but then you need to take into account a collet chuck of some sort, your cutter, and then maybe a vice so with a 240mm high part you are really very close to your limits, in fact I don't think there will be room.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Adding in some sort of riser block to these mills you mention may be doable ( if for instance the column is a bolt on type like the Sieg SX 2 series ) but at a cost of reduced rigidity…..something to think about…

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

I will only be milling the face off the parts that are 230mm high and I will do these direct on the table so I should be ok with height regarding the tapping… most of the parts will be under 100mm.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Michael Bird 1 on 11/11/2016 17:37:30:

If you are putting the mill on a bench make sure you have enough ceiling height. I have mine on a bench and luckily as I didn't check it just fits.

The WM16 has 370mm gap between table and spindle, but then you need to take into account a collet chuck of some sort, your cutter, and then maybe a vice so with a 240mm high part you are really very close to your limits, in fact I don't think there will be room.

It's a bench top mill, he's not in the market for a huge monster, so if you had alot more room you're probably going to be hitting the ceiling or possibly not even going to get to the handle!

I should think that would be well within the capability of the WM16, although i'd be more tempted by the brushless motor belt powered one they've recently brought out.

I would've said the warco major, it's got the guts, but the round column and subsequent means of head travel is a little off-putting.

The GH18 is very steep on price but as far as i'm concerned, however, it solves all the niggles i had with the WM16 and judging by the features would be nigh on faultless, throw whatever you like at that! 

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303223-gh-18-mill.html

 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 11/11/2016 19:09:41

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

I've looked at the major quite a bit as its twice the weight of the other machines with more spindle height… I discussed the round column with warco as I was concerned about this loss of position when raising the head… i was worried it was when you were machining and going up and down during the cycles… But it's when you undo the head and raise it to change bits etc, which wouldn't bother me.

I have also decided I want to ensure I can upgrade the machine later when cash allows etc.

Currently I am thinking the VM16 for it variable speed control (does that matter?) or the major for its weight

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

I've just sold my Major equivalent (Chester Eagle 30) its main drawback was the round column, other than that it was a fine machine….X axis power feed, 3 phase conversion with vfd….came with stand too….I upgraded to the stereotypical 626 machine which although has a smaller work envelope doesnt suffer the same round column issue…

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Maybe Sieg X2.7 or 2.7L? £999 / £1025 +£65 delivery

**LINK**

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Couldn't disagree more with the experience above, I found everything on their machine (WM16) to be in fine condition, look at this way, theres always going to be the chinese machine haters.

Our own inability to competitively make our own machines in the UK isn't going to be constructively solved by simply blaming china, whom without their machines many couldn't even start the hobby.

Michael W

 

 

Edited By Michael Walters on 12/11/2016 20:41:30

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

 

So i've got maybe 7 or 8 chinese/indian made, perhaps british inspected machines, none of which out of the box gave me any trouble,especially the electrics. The chances are if faults were so common, surely spinning the roulette wheel 8 times is going to land me in trouble? Apparently not; they seem to be far better than the innumerable "reviews" make them out to be.

There are some things said here that i can say for certain are not true, i've spoken to and emailed warco a good number of times now and from the sales reps all the way down to the bloke in the warehouse and they are definitely real people. A few times they've told me a part wasn't in stock, only for me to receive a call from them maybe a week or two later letting me know it was there again.

Even when they couldn't help me they were not short on suggestions either, for all they knew i may have never bought a warco in my life, but they still helped me. (Although i doubt many people would phone them and talk about specific parts in their machines without owning one.. )

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael Walters on 13/11/2016 02:16:47

Edited By John Stevenson on 14/11/2016 00:57:31

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

If it where not for Chinese/Import machines many would not be able to indulge in this hobby. I have a Bridgeport mill and a Taiwanese 14"x40" lathe. It does all I want but has needed some work after 20 years service. My 5C collet chuck is in almost daily use and that is Chinese. It is a bit like when people used to compare an old rear engine Skoda and a Ford Escort. The price difference was never mentioned. My Brother in law has a Sieg mill and Axminster lathe, after some work to them both produce good work.

[Men IfrParticipant @menifr84251]

If any electrical item is dangerous when bought please report to trading standards to investigate. I would start with the department from where the machines are sold not where you live.

Edited By Men Ifr on 13/11/2016 14:43:25

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I find it very curious to find such contradictory comments about a supplier in the same thread. I wonder what's going on?

I'm not a fanboy and I'm pretty sure Michael isn't either. My experience is much like his, generally positive with some reservations.

I've been inside the electrics and mine are nowhere near as bad as ***** suggests. It's true that the kit isn't as well made as I would like. But I wasn't surprised that it's not as good as much more expensive industrial tooling.

The only thing I've ever found that could be considered dangerous was a slightly loose terminal connection. I haven't encountered any incorrectly rated components or serious assembly issues. Slight issues, yes. Mechanically, everything I've bought worked out-of-the-box, and it's all benefited from minor fettling. I haven't found anything to justify a complaint.

Is the disagreement because people have different expectations? I'm certainly not expecting perfection for the money but perhaps others have different standards.

Another possibility is that the quality of new kit varies wildly on delivery: if so I would have expected to see more complaints on the forum. What are others seeing?

One thing I'd like to ask *****is why he hasn't just returned his unsatisfactory lathe as unfit for purpose. I'm sure bad examples do exist. There are a few posts on the forum where people have returned items, and the UK suppliers – not just Warco – have apparently all stood up to their responsibilities.

I hope no-one is just China-bashing. It discourages newcomers to the hobby unnecessarily.

Dave

 

Edited By John Stevenson on 14/11/2016 00:59:04

[JonParticipant @jon]

Most on here just avoid the confrontation, maybe reason why.
All too easy to commend but slated when given their own findings.

Chinese can make quality products when stood over, except we don't see much of it through demand for cheap products. Those that want quality look else where or live with it.

Andy nothing wrong at all with an RF25 either, the smaller brother of RF30 and would be my choice over any you listed. Round column can turn to advantage by swinging it round to machine more than length of whole table plus more. The only downside is raising the head therefore any operations have to be taken in to account with differing cutters, drills etc before starting.
Known by many brand names all differing in price but can collect from Machine Mart tomorrow. Just use the MT3 collets from Ketan no loss of height, dead simple and quick to use.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

In the last few years I've come across huge numbers of people with all sorts of lathes. MOST owners of imported machines are satisfied, a few people get unlucky.

Those who buy from reputable suppliers generally report that issues get sorted or they are able to return the machine.

There are a proportion of people who expect Myford quality from a lathe that's a fraction of the price. They will be as disappointed as someone who buys a Kia and expects it to match up to a Rolls Royce.

Neil

[Keith MathesonParticipant @keithmatheson47708]

Hi I purchased my first mill just under a year ago. I decided to get one a bit bigger than I thought I needed. I ended up with an amadeal ama30 as this appeared to give the biggest travel and height for this sort of money. It does have plastic gears which, as you will read in old threads can be a weak point in this style of kill. If like me you are not going to be knocking great big chunks out at great speed then it's ok. Belts and brushless motors add to the price significantly. If it becomes a problem later on I can modify to belt. I cannot modify to make it bigger! really happy with mine. Hope this is of some use.

[BrevaParticipant @breva]

I have had an Amadeal LV25 for a few years. It has not given any real problems. It can tackle light to medium jobs but don't expect to take heavy cuts. With light feeds and plenty of cutting fluid it will chomp away at it's own pace.

The only black spot is with the fine down feed. There is a lot of backlash in the knob. I have not managed to eliminate that as it seems to be the mesh of the two gears. Amadeal were willing to investigate it but needed the machine back. As I only live 200 miles across the sea and can't swim I have learned to live with it.

Like a lot of Far Eastern machinery, it is advisable to strip it down to clean thoroughly and re-lubricate. There are plenty forums on the Web to explain how and there are some useful mods you can make also.

You're going to need some sort of clamping system and /or vise also. I found a set of parallels very useful in setting things up. The list goes on.

My own feeling is that if I were buying now I'd go a bit bigger, but at the time it got me into the hobby and If I'm honest it will, with patience, do most of what I need.

John

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Think my money would go somewhere like this……………no connection btw

**LINK**

or better still……..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tom-Senior-milling-machine-/232137320669?hash=item360c7668dd:g:7AEAAOSw4GVYHwGB

 

 

 

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 13/11/2016 23:09:38

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/11/2016 17:22:21:

I find it very curious to find such contradictory comments about a supplier in the same thread. I wonder what's going on?

I'm not a fanboy and I'm pretty sure Michael isn't either. My experience is much like his, generally positive with some reservations.

Dave

.

Gentlemen.

I must apologise for the edits and deletions in this thread as I have had to delete 5 posts and ban three 'members', plus edit some quoted remarks.

Two of the new members were recent signee's and both had the same ISP, naughty , naughty when we have software that checks this.

The other member, nay ex-member should know better than bad mouth an established trader after having been successfully prosecuted in a recent court case by the said trader.

I have chosen to quote on Dave's post above to high light this but stress that Dave has nothing to do with any of it, it's just that he spotted the same flags the software came up with.

John S. with late night moderators hat on

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Well done John. I was wondering about the motives behind these two recent members' postings.

Russell.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Thank you John,

Their experience of Warco seemed odd, if not at least completely contrary to what i know genuine owners have experienced, It surprises me that some would seek to capitalize on slandering.

Michael W 

Edited By Michael Walters on 14/11/2016 08:46:20

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by John Stevenson on 14/11/2016 01:07:47:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/11/2016 17:22:21:

…

…

I have chosen to quote on Dave's post above to high light this but stress that Dave has nothing to do with any of it, …

John S. with late night moderators hat on

"Dave has nothing to do with any of it, …" That's a first. I normally plead guilty and ask for 75 other offences to be taken into consideration.

Cheers,

Dave

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