New hobby lathe for retired engineer?

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Good morning all. I have been having a browse around these excellent forums before framing my question(s) here to help me buy a new mini lathe.

I am a very soon to be retired mechanical engineer (former time served fitter/turner, a long time ago). And I am going to catch up on a few neglected projects. Amongst them a couple of motorcycles.

I am assembling a new collection of hand and powered tools to assist in my newly rekindled hobby. Things like, bench, vice, hand tools, micrometers, bench grinder are all well in hand.

Now I come to the mini lathe (and soon, a compact pillar drill).

My requirements are fairly straight forward. I want to make things like wheel spindles, steering stems etc. Typically up to 30mm diameter, less than 300mm long.

Then a few bits more ambitious that require a boring bar to bore up to about 55mm, not too deep, managable dimensions. Typical tolerances, +/- 0.05mm. I am quite happy to polish out the last thou or so for things like wheel bearing fits etc…But I need a swing ideally of 240mm minimum above the bed to mount a face plate to hold items to be bored. That's a tall order in the machines aimed at the occaisonal hobbyist market. The second stumbling block is I would prefer if the head stock bore would pass a 30mm diameter. Again, it seems not posssible. 20mm seems typical.

Otherwise, the typical 350/400mm between centres bed, 500/600kw mini lathe seems OK. I will mostly machine aluminium alloys, 6061, 6082 a bit of 7075 for spindles. Some minor carbon/stainless steel parts on occaision.

The regular names croping up here, Amadeal, Chester, Warco, SPG Tools and a couple of others all seem to do very similar kit. I guess the main differentiator is price. Maybe that reflects quality to an extent? I'm not sure.

I also notice some issues mentioned with the Chinese speed control boards, being replaced with a UK unit. Quite happy to do stuff like that.

Sorry, for the long post. What would be the best machine(s) to broadly fit those needs in the present market? Preferably<£1000.

Thanks.

FB.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello Fred and welcome. There are a number of M/C enthusiasts on here who may be able to offer advice on choice of lathe. Have you considered a used on such as the Boxford?

Brian

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

You have over-looked/missed Arceurotrade in your list of suppliers. I would suggest they are likely the most-recommended supplier of machines, by members on the forum, for machines for forum users (and others, of course).

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

To get that 250mm swing and 30mm spindle bore you would have to start looking at a WM290 from Warco or similar siz emachine.

A WM 250 would just give the swing but a WM280 actually has a 240mm dia faceplate with a little room to spare, both these will pass 1" through the spindle

Edited By JasonB on 05/05/2020 08:21:11

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Found this:

250 * 300 Lathe

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Brian H on 05/05/2020 07:53:11:

Hello Fred and welcome. There are a number of M/C enthusiasts on here who may be able to offer advice on choice of lathe. Have you considered a used on such as the Boxford?

Brian

Thanks, yes, I have but I really don't want an old machine to be frank. If I wanted high quality and longevity that would be an option. But I'm in a different market, I think. (Out of budget too?).

Cheers.

FB.

 

Edited By Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 08:22:33

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/05/2020 08:01:19:

You have over-looked/missed Arceurotrade in your list of suppliers. I would suggest they are likely the most-recommended supplier of machines, by members on the forum, for machines for forum users (and others, of course).

Briiliant! Exactly what I was hoping to hear! Added to the research list.

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 05/05/2020 08:10:30:

Found this:

250 * 300 Lathe

Cheers. That certainly does the job. It's a bit bigger all round than I anticipated but what I want isn't available in the more compact machines. I have to consider where I will compromise.

FB.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Fred,

Welcome to the party.

The ARC offering does not offer you the swing or the bore you seek. You would be better off considering Jasons suggestion. Also, as you have been a mechanical engineer – time served fitter, definitely do consider used machines such as the Boxford. Based on your experience, hopefully you will be able to judge the quality/life of the used machine, which may come within your budget, and may include tooling.

Ketan at ARC.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 08:33:46:

Fred,

Welcome to the party.

The ARC offering does not offer you the swing or the bore you seek. You would be better off considering Jasons suggestion. Also, as you have been a mechanical engineer – time served fitter, definitely do consider used machines such as the Boxford. Based on your experience, hopefully you will be able to judge the quality/life of the used machine, which may come within your budget, and may include tooling.

Ketan at ARC.

LOL! It's precisely because I remember the old Boxfords, Myfords, Colchesters etc… That's why I don't want one! I guessed one would be way out of my budget actually. And I am not looking to split thous on jobs, nothing like that. Interst and input hugely appreciated.

FB

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 08:46:04:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 08:33:46:

Fred,

Welcome to the party.

The ARC offering does not offer you the swing or the bore you seek. You would be better off considering Jasons suggestion. Also, as you have been a mechanical engineer – time served fitter, definitely do consider used machines such as the Boxford. Based on your experience, hopefully you will be able to judge the quality/life of the used machine, which may come within your budget, and may include tooling.

Ketan at ARC.

LOL! It's precisely because I remember the old Boxfords, Myfords, Colchesters etc… That's why I don't want one! I guessed one would be way out of my budget actually. And I am not looking to split thous on jobs, nothing like that. Interst and input hugely appreciated.

FB

Could you elaborate?… do you remember the old Boxford, an others in a negative light as a fitter?…

Ketan at ARC

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by JasonB on 05/05/2020 08:08:15:

To get that 250mm swing and 30mm spindle bore you would have to start looking at a WM290 from Warco or similar siz emachine.

A WM 250 would just give the swing but a WM280 actually has a 240mm dia faceplate with a little room to spare, both these will pass 1" through the spindle

Edited By JasonB on 05/05/2020 08:21:11

Nice budget busting machines. I have looked at the Warco range, they are nice. I very likely have to decide where to compromise, budget versus capability. If I can get 98% of what I want then I will compromise on capability before budget.

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 08:58:36:

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 08:46:04:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 08:33:46:

Fred,

Welcome to the party.

The ARC offering does not offer you the swing or the bore you seek. You would be better off considering Jasons suggestion. Also, as you have been a mechanical engineer – time served fitter, definitely do consider used machines such as the Boxford. Based on your experience, hopefully you will be able to judge the quality/life of the used machine, which may come within your budget, and may include tooling.

Ketan at ARC.

LOL! It's precisely because I remember the old Boxfords, Myfords, Colchesters etc… That's why I don't want one! I guessed one would be way out of my budget actually. And I am not looking to split thous on jobs, nothing like that. Interst and input hugely appreciated.

FB

Could you elaborate?… do you remember the old Boxford, an others in a negative light as a fitter?…

Ketan at ARC

Hi Ketan, I remember everything about being an apprentice and as a fitter in a negative light! That's why I studied to become an engineer. I have nothing against the longevity, the capability, the accuracy or the heritage of the old machines. I simply don't want one. Just like I don't want a Ford Anglia any more.

FB

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Welcome along Fred, I am a retired toolmaker and motorcycle restorer. (mainly pre-war bikes) I have a 14" x 40" lathe that does everything I ever need with a 40mm bore I can pass most motorcycle related things through the head. Only you know what space and budget you have so good luck with the search. For wheel spindled I always use EN16T never any of the alloys mentioned.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Ketan, I remember everything about being an apprentice and as a fitter in a negative light! That's why I studied to become an engineer. I have nothing against the longevity, the capability, the accuracy or the heritage of the old machines. I simply don't want one. Just like I don't want a Ford Anglia any more.

FB

Ahh.. I understand your reasoning now. Thank you.

Ketan at ARC

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

A bit over your budget, but there is an ex-demo Chester DB10 that may be big enough for you **LINK**

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 05/05/2020 09:04:01:

Welcome along Fred, I am a retired toolmaker and motorcycle restorer. (mainly pre-war bikes) I have a 14" x 40" lathe that does everything I ever need with a 40mm bore I can pass most motorcycle related things through the head. Only you know what space and budget you have so good luck with the search. For wheel spindled I always use EN16T never any of the alloys mentioned.

Hi Chris, thanks, Yes, 7075 is a high strength alloy and would be the only alloy I would consider. It's comparable to many carbon steels. But obviously, not EN16T.

FB

[Anonymous]

The requirements versus budget is utterly unrealistic. The only way to come close would be an ex-industrial machine, but that has been discounted. By greatly reducing the requirements the budget could be met, but no way are 98% of the requirements going to be met within budget, especially spindle bore.

Andrew

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 09:08:52:

Hi Ketan, I remember everything about being an apprentice and as a fitter in a negative light! That's why I studied to become an engineer. I have nothing against the longevity, the capability, the accuracy or the heritage of the old machines. I simply don't want one. Just like I don't want a Ford Anglia any more.

FB

Ahh.. I understand your reasoning now. Thank you.

Ketan at ARC

You're moe than welcome Ketan, we all have our baggage and foibles.

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 05/05/2020 09:47:02:

The requirements versus budget is utterly unrealistic. The only way to come close would be an ex-industrial machine, but that has been discounted. By greatly reducing the requirements the budget could be met, but no way are 98% of the requirements going to be met within budget, especially spindle bore.

Andrew

Yes, I know. But I have to start somewhere. Start off at perfection and compromise on capability/budget until you have something you can live with. Thanks for the input. For example, if I can't swing 250mm to bore a 55mm hole, I'll get a mate to do it. But do the rest of the job myself. I'd likely want to do somhing like that no more three or four times a year. Maybe less.

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by AdrianR on 05/05/2020 09:14:17:

A bit over your budget, but there is an ex-demo Chester DB10 that may be big enough for you **LINK**

Yes, I already saw that one! I do like it and it may be possible to stetch the budget but I have the compromises to work out in my head first. Input is much appreciated. I would certainlyb consider an ex-demo or show machine at the right combination of capability/price. After all, I am not making space rockets or anything.

FB.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Fred,

Lathes cut metal (and/or other materials). The old machines can (mostly) use the same cutters as the new machines. Or consider that in vice versa terms.

I have a Raglan 5”. It does all I need with likely far more rigidity/ability than (most?) similarly sized chinese offerings.

I would suggest it is more reliable than many modern offerings, the spindle runs in tapered roller bearings, uses a smooth-running 3 phase motor (with variable speed, soft start, increased operating range, etc.) as well as having a reliable manual variable speed change mechanism – so the speed can be altered on the run, both mechanically and electronically. They can be improved over the original basic specification.

It will accept 24” between centres and has a centre height of 5 1/8”, so will actually swing almost 10 5/8” due to the 3 3/8” separation of the 1 1/2” hardened ways. It has a separate feed drive (so the lead screw is used less often, a QCBG and needs only a couple of gears changing round to cut metric threads and power feeds to both axes in both directions. It also sports a very precise long-travel auto carriage trip which allows easy cutting to a shoulder – not many small lathes have that.

lt will only pass just over an inch through the spindle, though.

A Ford Anglia, with a better engine/gearbox, brakes etc would be acceptable to me – apart from the safety, where modern cars have much improved crash resistance and occupant safety items (early Anglias were not even fitted with safety belts) and improved personal comfort.

So, I don’t think the analogy between old-era cars and lathes particularly holds water. But simply your choice if you want a shiny new machine that likely can do no more than an older machine. CNC has replaced most manual machining in industry, but most hobbyists are yet to employ that technology for metal cutting.

Yet another difference is in price, of course. My lathe, in good order and with most of the desired/needed extras, cost me a good deal less than half that of an equivalent-sized new chinese lathe. It simply cuts metal to sufficient (well better, actually) accuracy/precision for my needs. It's a machine, not just a blingy possession.🙂

[Henry BrownParticipant @henrybrown95529]

Fred, as another retired engineer I'd respectfully suggest that the 98% ok, will drive you nuts! I bought a Myford S7 and thought it would be great for what I wanted but soon found it was too small, especially the swing and spindle bore, so had to upgrade. I like playing about with car and very occasionally bike stuff so have a good idea where you are coming from, save a few quid extra and go for what you want plus another 2%!

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Thanks, not done it yet, I respect that view. But just like I don't want a Ford Anglia with a modern engine, I don't want an old machine tool with modern tools.

For a machine that's likely to see less than fifty hours use in a year, the question would be to buy an adequate modern mini lathe or not buy one at all to be honest. But the two bike projects I have presently, if I make what I need for them both versus getting someone else to make them, then the machine effectivley is free after that.

FB.

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