Model Engineers Workshop Lost The Plot

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

I for one care more about content than typos.

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

And there are some who want to continue this slanging match.

Not the most friendly forum is it?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

John Flack, further down the page is a thread called MEW253 Darryl Conway

Take a read of that post or article and tell me if you were editor, could you proof read this?

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 10/06/2017 18:20:22:

'Coffee Cup Sterling'. well…the base looked silver to me.

Daved

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by John Flack on 10/06/2017 20:15:17:

Jason B ……just why should there be errors in submitted work? If someone submits work and receives payment part of which is paid for by the subscriber surely an accurate and error free manuscript is a minimum requirement

Why, well because we live in the real world. Having been involved with helping the editors on several occasions trying to sort out errors and anomoiles in submitted work I actually know what comes in and it ain't perfect.

What information do you have that the cover price would double, have you invented this cost?

Plucked it out of thin air, expect it would actually be more. Gone are the days when ME could support a full time staff of several people plus those who were almost commisioned to write for the mag.

Have you even made a enquiry to anybody as to whether subscribers would be willing to pay more for an 'error free' magazine?

Going by the moans when we have had price increases in the past there is really no need to make enquiries. The majority of the model engineering fraternity are known to have short arms and long pockets.

Given the cost of setting up a workshop and the cost of materials, plus a modest calculation for depreciation on your expenditure over a period, doubling the cost the cover price would be almost insignificant.

Agreed but you would not think it when price increases are mentioned or something is cut back

John

My comments in bold .J

[Anonymous]

Posted by John Flack on 10/06/2017 20:15:17:

Jason B ……just why should there be errors in submitted work? If someone submits work and receives payment part of which is paid for by the subscriber surely an accurate and error free manuscript is a minimum requirement

Have you ever written anything for MEW or ME?

I got issue 256 of MEW this morning, but didn't open it as I was heading for the gliding club to fly the big glider. Having now skimmed it I see that I have a short article in it. While I do my best to eliminate errors using a spell checker and by proof reading, both on screen and paper copy, there is always a chance that an error will sneak through. All one can do is to minimise the chances.

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm sure David is right.

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well he always was before.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I do so wish I was perfect. Then I could criticise everyone I want to. Until I reach that state, I'll get someone else to check all my work, and bite my tongue.

Regards

Richard.

[Raymond Sanderson 2Participant @raymondsanderson2]

Ah the life of an editor only a club bulletin and even there the ex-editor whinged and whine about me changing the logo' he created tens years previous. The fact I added colour and updated it didn't matter. The new and updated sponsor adds used also 10 years old replaced he didn't understand why they needed to be LOL something about the sponsors were getting requests for machines at those prices i told him.

Producing brochures for tour company they brought in a proof reader at great expense to cut printing costs by cutting words a friend of the CEO's. I reproduced the rough copy and printed it out handed it to CEO to read. After his long weekend off he stormed in asking what this crap was?? I told him its already at the printers like he signed off on. he was on the phone to the proof reader in seconds. That was the end of her $$$ paid job.

Oh I had to other bosses between me and CEO who also proof read each.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by John Flack on 10/06/2017 20:15:17:

Jason B ……just why should there be errors in submitted work? If someone submits work and receives payment part of which is paid for by the subscriber surely an accurate and error free manuscript is a minimum requirement

John

With the best will in the world humans are fallible. That is why software has bugs, airplanes crash and I occasionally have burnt toast with my breakfast.

Error free just does not exist within the human realm, the best we can hope for is to minimise errors, and in the case of a magazine, I expect that this task falls on the editor.
Given unlimited time and resources I have no doubt that Neil could put out a 99.9% error free MEW. Unfortunately, like many things in life, compromises are necessary. The publishers are likely acutely aware of just how far they can push the buying public before alienating enough readers to no longer make the magazine cost effective especially given just how much print media has suffered in the Internet age.

Besides which even the expensive £15 an issue peer reviewed professional journals sometimes get it wrong. viz. the 1997 article in the prestigious medical journal "The Lancet" which erroneously linked MMR vaccinations to autism and single handedly triggered a major reoccurrence of some not too insignificant childhood diseases.

At the end of the day when it comes down to it, one really has to accept that MEW is a magazine written by hobbyists for hobbyists and to simply enjoy it for what it is.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 11/06/2017 01:03:23

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

That last remark is brilliant Clive and sums it up brilliantly

As an aside I’m doing an article for Neil at the moment. It was actually started some years ago and has been a work in progress. I use Word and rely on the spell and grammar checker a lot.
Recently I gave a copy to the Delectable Dr Debs who is also a Professor and has spent her working life in avionics research so report writing is a doddle to her and she also understands the subject.
However when I got the article back, fully corrected for spelling and grammar it doesn’t say what I want it to mean

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Lost the plot?

You probably have. Or been on the mardy nuts

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

👍 Clive !

Couldn't have said it better myself .

A few errors here and there just adds character to the magazine and reminds me of the fact that MEW is a magazine that is edited by a fellow model engineer not a professional editorial team .

Ian .

Edited By XD 351 on 11/06/2017 07:03:43

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by XD 351 on 11/06/2017 07:02:00:

that MEW is a magazine that is edited by a fellow model engineer not a professional editorial team .

Ian .

Or a very good reminder that were all human, who would grudge somebody this when we all make mistakes and a pretty harmless one at that?

Michael W

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I'm so glad I don't work in the publishing industry anymore. I get to putter about in my shed and if I make a cock up nobody need ever know about it. I just quietly do it over again, when I feel like it. Luverly

I think Mark Twain summed it up well when it comes to the joys of editorship: "I am not the editor of a newspaper and shall always try to do right and be good so that God will not make me one."

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

I am not going to indulge in rudeness or negative criticism of either Neil or David, but I want to make some observations:

I have read, and later subscribed and read, MEW throughout David and Neil's watches. No, it isn't perfect; I'm sure Neil still cringes over the recent issue number error, I certainly cringe at the proof-reading errors that slip through, but I continue to read and enjoy the magazine.

I can understand that a speciality title like MEW doesn't make enough money to employ sufficient people to ensure that every issue goes out error-free, I'm just glad that it still does go out.

I am also aware that, for me at least, the personality of the Editor is important in creating the feeling of involvement and inclusiveness that I enjoy when I regularly read a magazine. Without wanting to imply negative criticism, I will say that both the advent of Neil, and over at ME, Diane, has enhanced my experience of both of the magazines.

I can't put my finger on what Diane has done, but I know that for me, ME is a better magazine now. With Neil I think it is the wide-ranging interests that he has brought along, coupled with his ability to talk naturally about himself and his interests.

I attribute this to the ability of both of them to project their own personalities in their writings. Yes, the 'personal touch'.

For an example of this, I would cite the differing experiences for me in reading Martin Evans' writings, compared to reading LBSC's writings.

I have never met any of the people I have named, but for me, the interesting, and indeed essential point is that some of them I feel I know.

To repeat myself, I mean no negative criticism by any of this. A belief of mine is that, when faced with negativity, if you look hard enough, you will find something positive.

Thank you.

Regards,

John.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Posted by John Flack on 10/06/2017 12:57:51:

I find David Clarks remarks unpleasant. The MEW editor has advised the forum that he has neither time, budget or skill to check the content of the magazine. Nuff said???

Where was this posted? I could do with a laugh.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Alistair Grant 4 on 10/06/2017 14:29:31:

Surprising that an editor has neither time, budget or skill to check the publication he is responsible for?

I'm in the happy position of being able to compare my version of 'Measuring Minute Power Levels with a Dynamometer' to the article Neil published. It's clear from the changes that someone read it carefully before unleashing it.

One change is editorial, at one point I refer to a “drug-dealer’s” digital micro-scale. It's not difficult to understand why that attempt at humour got the chop.

Another example is the fix applied where I left out a full stop. 'The Microcontroller is an Arduino Uno bought online from http://www.arduino.cc As the website also …' The editor fixed this with a comma, '…bought online from http://www.arduino.cc, as the website also…' Now, is the correction a mistake or an improvement? (I don't care.)

What's scary is how easily mistakes slip into print despite elaborate precautions. A Bible was printed in 1632 with a word missing from the seventh commandment: 'Thou shalt commit adultery.' They weren't alone, 'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall inherit the Kingdom of God?' and – most appropriate to this discussion – 'the printers have persecuted me without a cause'.

Dave

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No one is laughing with you David 🤡

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 11/06/2017 09:08:11:

… I could do with a laugh.

.

David,

I will leave John Flack to quote his reference; but meanwhile

this old thread from 2013 might raise a smile. **LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=85089

MichaelG.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

The quality of photographs leaves a lot to be desired. MEW 256 pg 14 -> Photo 15, Photo 16 are so out of focus that it is difficult to see the action. In these days of digital photography, inexcusable. If I were the Editor, I would have asked for better before publishing.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Strange photo 16 looks perfectly clear on my digital version.

As 15 is a machining action shot it is not so easy to ask for another without the author having to make a second part. Also do we really need to "see the action" of a flycutter when that is not what the article is about?

[Anonymous]

Posted by KWIL on 11/06/2017 10:09:08:

The quality of photographs leaves a lot to be desired. MEW 256 pg 14 -> Photo 15, Photo 16 are so out of focus that it is difficult to see the action.

Oeeeer, thought I'd better check my article for picture focus and text changes. I haven't checked every single word and punctuation mark, but the only change I found was 4" scale to four-inch scale, which seems slightly clumsy to me.

Andrew

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I was the Editor of my Society's Newsletter for about seven years, so whilst certainly not on par with ME or MEW, I can certainly sympathise with their Editors…

Many times I had very little material (in hand) to publish with a 'print' deadline looming. I will admit I used to write a fair amount of the content myself, sometimes ghosting for other people (with their permission) simply because they either didn't have the time, confidence or ability to write an article themselves. I should add that within our membership, I am very far from being the best engineer or modeller. There are far better (and much more productive) people around than me but unfortunately, trying to persuade them to put pen to paper was just about impossible in most cases.

I also used to read (and re-read) all of the material (as did my wife) before sending it off to the printers but I could almost guarantee that when the Newsletters were delivered the very first page that I looked at would have a very obvious typo.

I also used to get complaints about the Newsletter from members but my solution was very simple. if they could do a better job, then they were very welcome to do so. Strangely, I never had anyone take me up on this generous offer.

Regards,

IanT

[Author]

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