Looking for an electric drip feed oiler pump

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I have a potential requirement for a 12 volt electrically powered drip feed oiler.

Basic spec will be 2 outlets with one drop per minute nominal delivery each of (probably) Dextron 2 ATF or ISO 32 hydraulic oil. Nothing demanding about the oil requirements beyond not too thick to flow around freezing and easy to get hold of. Having a lifetimes supply of Dextron 2 and ISO 32 about the place nails the easy to get hold of bit!

Was surprised that my Google-fu wasn't up to finding inexpensive, low delivery, solenoid powered oil pumps from the usual low cost import sources. So maybe thre aren't any.

Does anyone know of a source for something suitable.

Or should I just roll up my sleeves and do a double Jim Ewings style "plunger through two O rings" type?

If so where can I find the current best practice design details. Memory says the original Model Engineer details were published around 2003 so I have them in the binders but are there any later references that may suit what I need better.

I imagine pumping power needed will be modest but solenoids are very much not my thing so advice on what to get would be appreciated. Aftermarket automotive diesel engine cut off solenoids look to have a decent price / performance / robustness ratio.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/09/2022 17:44:54

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Would a 12v peristaltic pump on a timer suit (on for long enough to do 1 rpm, stop and wait, repeat)? Perhaps a 24v version run at 12v for extra slowness.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It might be worth looking at Syringe Dispensers [as used for medication and laboratory work] for inspiration, Clive

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ You could start here: 

https://www.wpi-europe.com/products/pumps–microinjection/laboratory-syringe-pumps.aspx

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/09/2022 18:35:05

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

How about a 'Universal Diesel Air Heater Pump' like this ebay example? Lots of them about delivering 0.022ml/s. Dunno how good they would be pumping a ticker oil against a head. If it were me I'd program an Arduino to run the pump on a schedule, with the timing determined by experiment.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can also mate a peri pump to a geared motor and variable speed, this is the one for my fog buster on it's fastest speed. Just need to check that the oil won't swell the silicon tube in the pump

This shows the geared motor first compered with how fast the supplied pump motor runs, you can get the geared ones with slower ratios if needed

Edited By JasonB on 24/09/2022 18:40:22

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

DC31k

Interesting idea. Hadn't realised that a peristaltic pump worked any sense with small intermittent deliveries. The ones I've encountered were always slow but continuous output.

Unfortunately a peristaltic pump almost certainly can't be fitted where I want to put it. Would need a more remote positioning making the delivery pipes far too long.

Have to investigate Jasons pump. Still way too fast in the video and impossible to fit where I envisage but maybe I can engineer it in with a total rethink.

SoD

That diesel heater pump is the sort of thing I was looking for but how does 0.022 ml/S translate into 60 (ish) drops per hour? Looks like plan A will be to get one and experiment with pulse modulation drive. Far as I can see bigger drops every 2 or 3 minutes would be fine. Much more though and things could get messy. It will certainly go where I want to fit it.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/09/2022 18:56:50

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

I'd suggest a gravity feed tank with a lid, and with two outlets, each having a) a ball type on/off valve, b) a needle valve after each shutoff valve to set flow rate. If the flow rate is only a few drops a minute a tank made from a defunct propane cylinder or similar steel vessel should last a while between fills. Pumps and controls for this small amount of flow would be massive overkill in my opinion.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive Foster on 24/09/2022 18:45:03:

SoD

That diesel heater pump is the sort of thing I was looking for but how does 0.022 ml/S translate into 60 (ish) drops per hour?

.

0.022ml is quite a common estimate of the volume of ‘one drop’

See ferinstance: **LINK**

https://www.maximumwellbeing.com/shop/Vitamin+D3/Premier+Research+Labs+Vitamin+D3+serum.html

so the calculation should be simple enough.

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Thanks for the steer Michael.

I'd never realised that one drop was an actual unit, 0.05 ml according to Wikipedia.

So if I want one drop per minute the heater pump suggested by SoD needs to run for a "long two seconds" every minute. As normal operating frequency range is said to be around 1 to 5 hz I figure I can live with that, plenty of room for a bit of tweaking to dial in the flow. It should cope with viscosity changes due to temperature well enough too. Which are always the bugbare of simple needle valve systems when used outside, especially if the driving head is very limited. Maximum of about 6 to 8 inches from tank to outlet is all that can be found in this case.

At £8.20 off E-Bay well worth a shot.

Thanks for the help gentlemen.

Clive

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Hi, Clive I have some dosing (diaphragm) pumps I picked up a few years ago. The run off 240v and are small but not micro. I've had a lot of experiance with peristaltic pumps and the ok for intermittent dosing. I did have some for aquarium use that you could set up one dose now and then on a timer. You might need to use viton rubber if the normal pump tubing reacts with your oils. Syringe pumps are good but you have to periodically refill them. Even with oil you might get the flow your after by using gravity from a reservoir like a medical drip. Have used this for chromatography when I did not have a peristaltic.

I will post a picture tommorrow.

Barry

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Clive,

I think you might find that the 0.05ml per drop comes from volumetric quantitative analysis with aqueous solution from lots of years in the past (possibly even before then). Drop size, particularly of oils, will vary much on viscosity and also the tip, through/from which it night fall. Viscosity of oils, in particular can vary widely with temperature.

The chinese air heater pumps certainly work well on diesel fuel, but not sure about much thicker oils. They do not generate pressure in the heater application, just flow. There are various sizes, of volume per stroke, available in both 12 and 24 volts form. Common ones are 16, 22 and 28ml per 1000 strokes.

There may be info on one of David McLuckie videos on these heaters. I know there are videos from people burning waste engine oil through these heaters – but they may thin the oil with kerosene.

 

Edited to add that I have checked and veg oil gets pumped – and also ‘wet’ hydraulic oil on a vid by JohnDragonMan

Edited By not done it yet on 24/09/2022 22:42:56

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Barry, ndiy

Fortunately I just need flow. Just enough pressure to reliably drive drops through a suitable size orifice. Might take a bit of fiddling to get a suitable orifice size and pump on / off time ratio but it should all be doable.

When sorted it just needs to be fitted and forgotton supplying a teensy bit of oil to ensure something never runs dry in operation whilst not self emptying when standing around.

Clive

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

No idea if it might be suitable, but I picked up a 12 volt oil pump from Lidl a while ago. Designed primarily to empty a sump via a pipe inserted down the dipstick tube.

Rob

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Automatic lubrication systems are used on trucks (lorries) to distribute grease .

Like this unit from https://www.graco.com/gb/en/vehicle-service/product/25c990-grease-jockey.html

Interlube is another supplier of automatic lubrication systems.

(The small plunger pumps are ideal for using in mechanical lubricators for steam engines and available with different discharge volumes. Ref: Model Engineer 23 August, 2002)

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Clive,

These chinese air heaters use pumps which provide each slug of fuel by one single stroke. You just provide it with the voltage and it makes one single stroke, so the volume is determined by the aliquot and the number of pulses of voltage provided. They just tick away dependent on the controlled pulse rate. Basically a solenoid system.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

ndiy

A solenoid system what what I originally envisaged as being a good approach so one of these heater pumps should be exactly what I need. The specified volume delivery seems reasonable fit to the job so, theoretically, its just down to sorting a control to get a suitable delivery rate. The difference between one big drop every couple of minutes, one small drop every thirty seconds or two small drops every minute being totally irrelevant in this context. But two decently big splots per hour won't do!

Plan A was an old school 555 IC based timer control using bits out of the handy electronics stock. But there are so many import options for a tenner or less my prejudice against wildly over capable and over specified components is rapidly being eroded. Dedicating a full blown, albeit tiny, microprocessor to simple timing duties still seems way overkill. But then back in the day my then boss said the humble 555 was way to much capability when a resistor and capacitor would do the job.

Wonder what pitfalls Lawyer Murphy and the Gremlin Squad are digging ahead of me. This all sounds far too easy!

Looks like these things could be a decent alternative to the simple needle valve and gravity drip feed for lathe jobs where "just a little cutting oil" is needed. I have both flood and mist set-ups on my lathe but generally flood is too messy and mist gets in all the wrong places.

Darn. Looks like I should have gone for the three for the price of two offer. A compact set up with small tank mounted directly on the toolpost seems very plausible. A magnet should hold it just fine.

Clive

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Clive, If the lubricator is for your lathe, why are you looking for a 12v system ?

There are lots of 220/240v automatic lubrication systems on the market for lathes, process machines, etc

Paul

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Plan A was an old school 555 IC based timer control using bits out of the handy electronics stock.

A good, reliable and cheap choice, I would say. I still like discrete components for simple circuits, but the 555 is a popular timing IC.

I supose you could use one pump and a change-over valve, just to make the build more intersesting?🙂

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Paul

The lubricator isn't for my lathe. That idea was a breakfast time after thought

Its for a motorcycle chain lubrication system that actually works properly and reliably (unlike a Scott oiler!). Spoilt by 30 years with a Norton Commander having a fully enclosed chain needing no attention between oil change services I want the same simplicity on my me-to-me retirement present Yamaha GTS. Spraying and poncing about with an exposed chain in the modern fashion got old fast!

Clive

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Hi Clive I don't think my 240v blackstones will suit (large and 240v flow about 1.2l/hr). There plenty of choice on Aliexpress which I have found to be just as good as amazon/PayPal if you factor in the delivery time. Sometimes you get a bad part but that's also true with the other sites.

Good to see another biker on the site I have a Honda 600fx and Ducati ST3 and know what you mean by chains. Have you considered using a small air pump to pressurise an oil reservoir and then use a solenoid valve to control flow to the chain (I.e. turning on and off).

Barry

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Barry

The air pump idea was, sort of, where I started. Basically civilising the Cobrra Nemo "screw down the top to pressurise the delivery chamber" device to give a more nuanced delivery rather than the 2 or 3 minutes of oiling time every couple of hundred miles its specified for. Or rather a Chinese knock off version thereof.

Solenoid pump seemed just as easy and more engineered. If I could find / make one. Chinee knock off of the Corrba on order to get a posh reservoir. I suspect the half finished version will get tried on the lathe first with a nice gummy piece of aluminium and parting tool loaded!

I was convinced that exposed chain drive wasn't a good way to go about a fortnight before I bought my first can of LinkLife around 50 years and a million miles ago.

Clive

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

These pump modules from Interlube are used in their automatic lubrication systems in trucks and operated by an electric motor to turn a cam to press the plunger. They are available with volumes from 0.01 – 0.1 cc/stroke. A mechanical version is used in the Model Engineer lubricator for steam engines which I listed above.

A possible solution to lubricate the chain on your bike is to use one operated by a 12v motor/gearbox (possibly a windscreen wiper motor) , solenoid or mechanical linkage to clutch/brake lever, etc which could give a shot of oil every time operated. Just an idea.

Paul

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Paul

Thanks. One lives and learns.

A most interesting device and not silly expensive (£12 – 20 ish) despite being a professional machine component. Although I was aware of such systems I'd always believed them to be related to the Bujur / Enots et al systems in relying on a metering orifice to control flow rather than being an actual pump. Presumably the operating device is normally immersed in the lubricant being pumped as the inlet appears to be concentric with the plunger and mounting body.

Maybe I was rush headed in ordering that heater pump!

Clive

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