Inverters and stop switches

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Old Mart, I posted pictures of the manual for my inverter on page 1 of this post and have just found the makers (or suppliers) name, it is;

Xin Shuang Yuan Co Ltd. Model No AT 1-150X

This was chosen because the control panel is removable and has a 5 foot extension lead so that it can be positioned where it is easily accessible. meaning that an emergency stop button is not so urgent (though I shall fit one eventually.)

It was the simplest thing to wire up with the 2 connections plus earth for mains input and the 3 connections plus earth for output being clearly marked on the main unit as well as being easily identifiable in the operating instructions

The mill has now been run several times to bed in the new motor bearings and the repacked spindle bearings, as well as finding out how the mill gearbox etc works.

Brian

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by old mart on 10/11/2019 16:59:51:

Mark, do you run more than one machine at once, and if so, how many?

Lathe or mill with the surface grinder chugging away in the background is not uncommon. All three at once has only happened once due to the limited number of times I've had work pieces that could be left alone with a long cut on the mill for any length of time while also using the other machines.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Sorry, no luck in finding info on the VFD.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I think this manual is the same as Brians .

https://en.ppt-online.org/448529

The parameters you need to change are pretty straightforward:

P10 and P11 set the control input source – if you want to mount a controller box on the machine you set these to external.

P50-P55 set what the X1-X6 terminals do .

You shouldn’t have to change any other settings .

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Are you sure those crimp connectors have been terminated with the correct amount of force? Did you use a ratchet crimping tool (should work correctly), a pair of pliers, or those cheap crimping pliers with no ratchet action? I wouldn't want to risk any terminations being made incorrectly.

Brian

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Those who say they cannot see how disconnecting a running motor will damage a VFD do not understand high power electronics. When the current though a coil (inductor) changes there is a voltage developed that is proportional to the rate of change. For disconnecting a motor, that large motor inductance can cause enough voltage to case arcing at the disconnect contacts (and possibly feed back into the drive causing issues) but more importantly for drive damage the inductance of wiring and even transistor internal connections on the drive side can cause voltage spikes high enough to cause damage. Yes you can design to account for these but don't bet on a cheap no name inverter having such protection. This does not mean every drive will fail the first time you disconnect it the magnitude of the spike and ability to cause damage depends on (among other things) the mains voltage, load, speed, temperature and most importantly the exact timing of the disconnect in relation to the load current.

I note that the drives direct advert that was linked to says they are "special" in respect of switching loads and also that they need to be rated at FiIVE to EIGHT TIMES the actual load. So for a 1hp motor you need 5 to 8 HP inverter with presumably a suitable input supply. Most electronics will take mose abuse if you only run them at 20% of their design rating.

Robert G8RPI.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Ajax, the wires and crimp connections are the same ones that were removed to change from star to delta and, judging by the green paint on the outside of the cable, were the ones it left the factory with.

Brian

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

As I don't fully understand VFD's I'm just enjoying the "new" lathe mine has given me!

I have just installed the remote pendant and made a mechanical "interlock" cover for the switch, that covers the srtart button unless the chuck guard is down (to prevent accidental starting).

Jim

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I looked up the instructions that XD351 posted, and they look right. Unfortunately all my attempts to save them to favourites has failed. They are the usual poor quality expected from VFD manufacturers who expect only electrical engineers to read them. The only external device I could make out on the circuit diagram is a potentiometer.

My advice to anyone thinking of getting a VFD is to look at the Inverter Drive Supermarket site, and select one which has their own quick start guide and avoid all this trouble.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

XD 351

Many thanks for all your trouble, I have carefully filed away your suggestion for use at a later date and yes, those instructions are identical to the ones that came with the unit.

I have been running the motor and mill at low speeds to bed in the new bearings and also to distribute the grease in the re-packed bearings. The mill is quieter that the VFD unit!

Brian

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Brian H on 11/11/2019 17:57:54:

XD 351

Many thanks for all your trouble, I have carefully filed away your suggestion for use at a later date and yes, those instructions are identical to the ones that came with the unit.

I have been running the motor and mill at low speeds to bed in the new bearings and also to distribute the grease in the re-packed bearings. The mill is quieter that the VFD unit!

Brian

Is it fan noise you can hear from the VFD?

Ian P

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by old mart on 11/11/2019 17:42:09:

I looked up the instructions that XD351 posted, and they look right. Unfortunately all my attempts to save them to favourites has failed. They are the usual poor quality expected from VFD manufacturers who expect only electrical engineers to read them. The only external device I could make out on the circuit diagram is a potentiometer.

My advice to anyone thinking of getting a VFD is to look at the Inverter Drive Supermarket site, and select one which has their own quick start guide and avoid all this trouble.

You may have to do a screen shot and save the image .

I think the reason they don’t show any external components except the pot is the pins X1-6 are configurable for many different inputs so they simply show them as switchable and as the switches shown are open this tells me a normally open Momentary contact switch that pulls the pin to ground to activate it . The pins for the pot are dedicated so they show that component with its value .

Noisy fans are a common issue with these inverters and i have seen one youtube video where they changed the fan – simple job one might think but he ended up having to disassemble the entire unit to get the fan out !

You could possibly disconnect the noisy unit and rig up some big pc case fans that come on with the mains power .

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Posted by Ian P on 11/11/2019 19:21:35:

Posted by Brian H on 11/11/2019 17:57:54:

XD 351

Is it fan noise you can hear from the VFD?

Ian P

Hello Ian, yes, it's fan noise, but I can live with that as the mill will make more noise at cutting speeds and when it is cutting.

Thanks for your help, it's most appreciated.

Brian

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