Herbert No10 Mill – details

[Me.Participant @me1]

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi All

I'm in need of info of which I can't seem to find on the WWW…. which i was surprised at.

Herbert No 10 Mill – Instruction book ? exploded view diagram ? tooling ? Speed controls.

Anyone out there using or know of any one using such a fine machine.

Thanks in anticipation

Steve

Ive tried Lathes.co.uk nothing sort a 2 page info sheet.

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi Only me again

Seems Ive brought the only 10S in existence….

After extensive internet searching I happened across http://www.Herbertspares.com – chap called Ken runs the site and a small spares shop with lots of old bits and more importantly lots of original drawings and parts lists.

He used to work for them from 1960 until he retired and the knowledge the man possesses is second to none.

Unfortunately for me he had never seen a 10s Mill and seems to think it was made in a different factory to his, he seems it was made in the drill press factory and maybe in the 50's – he did say where but i can't remember –

Anyway, if your looking for info on Herbert machines or tooling then give him a look up.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This ancient thread may possibly be of interest: **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=85929&p=1

MichaelG.

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

I am still using a Herbert 10, not sure what the difference is. There was a 10s on the bay last week, but it looked identical to mine. Worst thing about it is the "special " Herbert taper with tooling very hard to find a shade different to int 30. I have owned mine for nearly 40 years now, love it, curse the one slot in the table often.

Good luck

Pete

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

I am still using a Herbert 10, not sure what the difference is. There was a 10s on the bay last week, but it looked identical to mine. Worst thing about it is the "special " Herbert taper with tooling very hard to find a shade different to int 30. I have owned mine for nearly 40 years now, love it, curse the one slot in the table often.

Good luck

Pete

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Sorry for double post, not read all the replies either, started reply but was called away for a couple of hours.

I made an adapter sleeve to convert mine to Int 30, plenty of tooling available of this type, even int to morse for drilling. The taper is the same as int 30 just a different size, the sleeve ends up 3 mm ish wall thickness. Your might want to check out the internal wiring, mine was much in need of attention when I got it.

When I bought mine, it only had two speeds in the box, stripped it and re-fixed a collar to solved it. I wouldn't worry about paper work its a rock solid simple machine to sort.

Pete

Edited By Pete White on 23/09/2020 18:58:02

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

It might be worth giving Steve a ring on this site:

http://premiermachinetools.co.uk/

I have no connection with them apart from being a satisfied customer.

Brian

[Me.Participant @me1]

Posted by Pete White on 23/09/2020 18:54:01:

Sorry for double post, not read all the replies either, started reply but was called away for a couple of hours.

I made an adapter sleeve to convert mine to Int 30, plenty of tooling available of this type, even int to morse for drilling. The taper is the same as int 30 just a different size, the sleeve ends up 3 mm ish wall thickness. Your might want to check out the internal wiring, mine was much in need of attention when I got it.

When I bought mine, it only had two speeds in the box, stripped it and re-fixed a collar to solved it. I wouldn't worry about paper work its a rock solid simple machine to sort.

Pete

______________________________-

Hi Pete

Many thanks for you're reply – fantastic news that I might have found a "Herbert 10" buddy !

As this is my first Mill, I will need all the help I can find.

I had read about the taper issue and hopefully the Mill has already had this adapter sleeve made – the chap I'm buying it from "inherited" the Mill when he brought a house – the mill was in the garage.

He tells me that the chap he brought the house from showed him the Mill and did it was working and Milling something.

If all else fails I will attempt to make a sleeve – You think the INT 30 would be the best option ?

Ken from Herbertspares – said exactly the same thing about the build quality – they are a very well made machine and easy to work on, he did say they had a issue with hidden roll pins being in places you wouldn't expect them to be when trying to dismantle things and issues with PB worm gears….. I wait to see what i'm dealing with when the Mill arrives next week.

I also noticed the single slot – I immediately thought – why not mill two parallel slots along side – I have a Mill after all….. or would this be frowned upon ?

If you don't mind could I PM you if I run into problems – I will need help with the initial setting up and the speed settings and what lever does what.

 

Edited By Me. on 24/09/2020 09:16:40

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

 

 

 

Edited By Pete White on 24/09/2020 14:00:45

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Link below might not work, I used to be able to do them on another forum ? Goes on about the sleeve process.

look here

Not a good idea at all to butcher the table, it might not even be thick enough !

I have a sub table which I bolt down when needed

Will p.m. you the link stuff if the post doesnt work.

Pete

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi Pete

Thanks for the link I have seen that before – as this is all so new to me its a little confusing – So, there saying the Herbert taper is the same "pitch" ? – angle of taper per inch ? as a ISO 30 – its just a different thickness at the "gauge" line – I take it the gauge line is where the taper hits into the socket and locks in place.

Is there a toolholder that can be modified to work in the Hebert – ie, re-cut the shaft of the taper to match the Herbert taper rather than starting with a blank or making a sleeve ?

Any chance you could PM some pictures of your Mill so I can compare – and a small idiots guide to what each handle and lever does.

My intensions is to strip and clean and replace (if needed) the Mill so Its not going to be running for a few weeks – I still need to run a 3 phase supply into my workshop yet….

Thanks again for your help.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

The taper that you have is 1 3/8NS (non-stick) and was the normal taper up to and including WW2. Some dimension of this taper appear in my11th edition of Machinery's Handbook.

The taper is 3 1/2" inches to the foot and the 1 3/8 is the diameter of the large end at the gage line.

The small end parallel portion is 0.800" to 0.790".

Hope that helps a bit.

Brian

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the info – I'm learning so much about this bl***y taper, I think I must be an authority on it now…..

Steve

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

You might be nearer to an authority when you have made an adaptor lol. I don't see how a tool could be re machined for lots of reasons, least being the Herbert is larger than the int 30 ! ?

I machined mine slightly different to the forum method.

I chucked up a piece of material and bored it to a blued fit to 30 int tool , then turned outer dia to a rough size to Herbert taper.

I had a 30 int tool with a 1 inch spigot, used for a boring head, so I chucked some bar and faced and turned this to accept the 30 int tool,fixed 30 tool with the 4 mounting bolts drilled and tapped with it in the chuck.

I then used a short draw bolt to secure the half made sleeve for machining, removing sleeve to check blued fit into the Herbert

???…………………if I remember correctly.

All the controls on the machine should have plates showing the obvious ?

Good Luck with the project, not much more to add I think?

Pete

 

Edited By Pete White on 24/09/2020 18:10:09

[Me.Participant @me1]

Thanks Pete for the info – I am hoping the spindle has a sleeve made already – as mentioned the chap selling it did see it working and was shown tools being fitted into the spindle – so I'm hoping I'm going to be ok.

If not please expect more questions –

Any chance of a picture of the adapter sleeve ?

Steve

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Workshop locked up and sleeve is in the spindle. A pic wouldn't be very interesting, it is just a taper blued to the mill spindle the inside blued to 30 int, don't over think it !

Pete

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi Pete

Not a problem – im in no rush. Ive not even taken delivery of the Mill yet – its being picked up next week and delivered to me the week after.

I send you some picy=tures of it when it arrives – so we can compare.

[Me.Participant @me1]

Hi Pete

Sorry but one more question in regard to the tapper sleeve – what would be the best inside tapper to cut. ???

Sorry if i'm being a bit dim but I can't get my head around the concept. I understand I do need an adapter but how does it fit, What keeps the sleeve in place – or what then keeps the new taper in place inside the new sleeve.

Does the Hebert use a draw bar ? If so, if I use the draw bar to hold the sleeve what then holds the new toolholder in place ? Or does it just rely on the taper stick to keep the tooling in place…..

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Steve

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Rough, very rough, sketch of setup, hope that helps.

Not sure about the image size?

Pete

[Me.Participant @me1]

Thats fine – and like they say a picture tells a thousand words – I get it now – the draw bar holds the tool and the sleeve is held in place by the tool –

Looks like the sleeve has to be just shy of the gauge line of the tool otherwise it wouldn't sit flush on the end of the spindle for the drive "dogs" ??

So the IN30 tooling would be the best option ?

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

I believe that there is a very small length of parallel after the gauge line ? Int 30 was a natural choice, didn't see any thing more suited IMO.

Plenty of 30 around at fair prices if you watch out. I was lucky that my machine came with a clarkson chuck on a Herbert taper. Apart from that I have adapters with the use of the sleeve to morse for drilling and a 30 tool for fly cutting. I don't think I can mention Arc Eurotrade?, so have a look at one of your forum sponsors as a starting point of the auction site.

Pete

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

I am not sure which casting is broken on your machine, that pic of mine shows the top of the knee mainly, big issue if that is broken .

Edited By Pete White on 24/10/2020 09:16:54

[Author]

Posts