Aircraft General Discussion

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Ian Abbott on 26/08/2015 09:01:31:

And. I'm not familiar with the laws regarding slander/libel, but did anyone read the comments attributed to the 71 year old ex-RAF instructor about the Hunter pilot. Quite nasty I thought.

Ian

Simply put. Had you heard of this blow hard before today ?

No and chances are you will never hear from him again. It's just one man's way of trying to grab some limelight at the expense of others.

Emphasised by having to have a dig at his hairstyle and the hat he wears. Well the unfortunate pilot in this case has far more notches on his belt than Flying Officer Kite. Makes one wonder if FO Kite was turned down for the lucrative private market hence the axe to grind over an issue that cannot be settled for many months until all the evidence is in hand.

Did anyone else take in and Andy Hill's wife is also a serving BA pilot ?

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

I think what got to me most, was that Andy Hill's family might read Flying Officer Kite's tirade. Haven't they got enough misery right now, without some bastard trying to make themselves sound impressive.

Yes, did notice that his wife is a BA pilot. The family bios were plastered on the tabloids practically before the aircraft stopped.

Ian

[Anonymous]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/08/2015 22:00:18:

​Please note that I am completely out of my depth here.

Whilst searching for pictures of the Loughborough drop-test rig that I mentioned earlier: I happened across this report on a previous Hunter accident. … Those with the appropriate technical background may find it of interest.

MichaelG.

Indeed, a very interesting read. It highlights that while ex-military piston engine aircraft are similar to normal piston engine aircraft, albeit with with a lot more power and weight, ex-military jets are in a different league in terms of system complexity and flight characteristics. The RAF guidance was that you should be at least 7000 feet over the airfield in order to carry out an engine out force landing.

Some years ago at the gliding club we had an informal lecture from a test pilot who lived nearby. He had flown the space shuttle training aircraft while in the US, which he said was like nothing else. In order to simulate the space shuttle the descent was flown with the engines in reverse thrust, giving a descent rate of about 10,000 feet/min.

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> The RAF guidance was that you should be at least 7000 feet over the airfield in order to carry out an engine out force landing.

Yes, an interesting read.

I don't suppose you get a lot of choice in the altitude department when you flame out… although I imagine that means 'if under 7000 feet start thinking about pointing the plane at empty countryside and ejection.'

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

Posted by Gordon W on 26/08/2015 16:42:08:

I remember seeing a TV program about the chap who actually tested the seats, can't remember the name. He got some pretty horrific injuries just doing the job, displaced organs etc., but reckoned to recover after a few weeks.

Many years ago I read Doddy Hay's autobiography "The Man in the Hot Seat". Hay was one of the first "test pilots" employed by Martin Baker to test the early ejector seats. An interesting read, if you can find a copy.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Andrew, an interesting report on the F-4 Hunter crash. I wonder how many hours the RAF pilots did on conversion to type for the Hunter, it would be more than 8, the number of hours that pilot had on type (10,000hrs + total). Ian S C

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Andrew, an interesting report on the F-4 Hunter crash. I wonder how many hours the RAF pilots did on conversion to type for the Hunter, it would be more than 8, the number of hours that pilot had on type (10,000hrs + total).

A bit of ejection seat history. Bernard Lynch of the Martin Baker Co. ejected from the rear cockpit of a modified Meteor 3 at 320mph at 8000ft on the 24th July 1946, He made 30 more ejections.

The first emergency ejection from a British aircraft was in 1949 from a Armstrong Whitworth AW 52, an experimental jet powered flying wing, the pilot was Joe Lancaster (according to the web, he's still alive).

Ian S C

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Sorry to be a bore, but I have answered my own question re Concorde U/carriage. Following link.

**LINK**

BobH

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I read the report that Andrew sourced – seems like a lot of similarities with the Shoreham incident from the little I know about it. That engine sounds like a bit of a nightmare, prefer things that go "blow-suck-squeeze-bang" myself.

F.O.Kite proved yet again that it is best to have the all facts before one mouths off – and as we don't have all the facts yet keeping quiet would be the best course to take. Regrettably, he didn't.

Chris

[Ray LyonsParticipant @raylyons29267]

I have only seen one crash and that was at a local show in the mid 50s. A Provost trainer was being put through its paces by an experienced naval pilot . As it pulled out of a loop, directly opposite and facing us on the other side of the runway it seemed about 50-100 ft up when the plane dropped like a stone. There was a large fireball and the wings broke off, cart wheeling across the runway. It is still remains a vivid memory for me today. If I remember correctly, the cause was later attributed to downdraft

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 27/08/2015 16:49:55:

Sorry to be a bore, but I have answered my own question re Concorde U/carriage. Following link.

**LINK**

LOL! It's a mudflap!

Neil

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Hmmm Neil, my mud flaps go behind the wheel, not in front of them. I am still puzzled as to how these "water deflectors" worked also the minimum ground clearance there was on the nose wheel setup. Again, on a four wheel bogie, why was the water deflector just on the front pair of wheels – was it that these cleared the water for the rear pair. There didn't seem to have been any aerodynamic shape given to them ?

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

Please note that I am completely out of my depth here.

Whilst searching for pictures of the Loughborough drop-test rig that I mentioned earlier: I happened across this report on a previous Hunter accident. … Those with the appropriate technical background may find it of interest.

MichaelG.

Michael,

Thanks for that link it took me back a good few years & brought back many memories for me. I refer to page 10 last paragraph before the report conclusions.

I was the guy in charge of that "computerised database" which held data on all aircraft operated by the RAF & FAA (the Army wasn`t interested & didn`t join up which caused a few laughs at times). CAA got to hear of us & visited & from then on we had a very good relationship with them & yes we did get some real head scratching enquiries from them all of which we answered.

Alan

[BubbleParticipant @bubble]

Please note that I am completely out of my depth here.

Whilst searching for pictures of the Loughborough drop-test rig that I mentioned earlier: I happened across this report on a previous Hunter accident. … Those with the appropriate technical background may find it of interest.

MichaelG.

Hello MichaelG

Did you pick up in that accident report that this was the Hunter that was in the Aero & Auto department at Loughborough in the early 60's

I sat in it often, dreaming!

I remember that one Saturday (yes we had lectures on a Saturday then) the airframes instructor Jim Oates was away so we decided to do him a favour and top up the tyre pressures on the Hunter. It took us about 2 hours to remove a wheel (they were big!) and roll it down to the shop compressor at the Auto end of the department, only to discover that the compressor only produced about 100 psi and the tyre already had 150 psi in it. We then had to work "overtime" to reassemble the landing gear.

Jim

Edited By Bubble on 29/08/2015 13:54:59

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

It has been recommended on the Wings Over NZ aviation forum, by members in the UK that no further speculation about the Hunter crash should be made, particularly in respect to the grieving relatives of the dead. Wait 6 months to a year, and the official report will be published.

Ian S C

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I live in rural east Hampshire,last saturday I saw a Spitfire in very close company with a eurofighter Typhoon then later on while mowing the lawn the Vulcan flew over , I assume they were going to Dunsfold, must be the last time I shall see a Vulcan up in the air.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bubble on 29/08/2015 13:53:28:

Hello MichaelG

Did you pick up in that accident report that this was the Hunter that was in the Aero & Auto department at Loughborough in the early 60's

Jim

.

I did indeed, Jim

I was at Loughborough from '68 to '71 [plus a year year working for I.C.E.] so I don't think we would have met.

Ergonomics Dept. was a bit 'fringe' … but I did have a couple of pals in Aero & Auto.

MichaelG.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I think a V-22 Osprey flew over the house just a moment ago or at least that's what I think it was, the Army are supposed to playing in the area this week.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

From what I have seen and heard, if there is an Osprey around- Duck ! 2 came across here a few months back and they seemed slow and noisy.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

It was slow, noisy and low which made me look, first though was WTF is that.

Bob

[Anonymous]

Being a complete wally I forgot to take my camera when flying in the recent Nationals at the local gliding club. Fortunately I got a mate to take a couple of pictures of one of the Tiger Moths I flew when learning to fly:

G-AOEI was fairly tidy when I flew it in the mid 80s, it is now absolutely pristine. Sorry about the scruff bag in front of the aeroplane.

Behind is the Queen Bee, and hiding behind that is a Rapide, and then the tugs and the local club motor glider.

Andrew

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

V-22 Osprey

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

The Osprey has been buzzing around for most of the day can't miss the as they are noisy things

[Paul BarrettParticipant @paulbarrett57424]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 01/09/2015 21:09:49:

Being a complete wally I forgot to take my camera when flying in the recent Nationals at the local gliding club. Fortunately I got a mate to take a couple of pictures of one of the Tiger Moths I flew when learning to fly:

G-AOEI was fairly tidy when I flew it in the mid 80s, it is now absolutely pristine. Sorry about the scruff bag in front of the aeroplane.

Behind is the Queen Bee, and hiding behind that is a Rapide, and then the tugs and the local club motor glider.

Andrew

I've got G-AOEI in my logbook too. Did my first solo on it when I learn't to fly at Cambridge. I think Bill Ison was the CP/Owner. I went on to own a share in the worlds smallest airline using a Tiger Moth. Got hundreds on hours in Moths and even won an aerobatic comp once in one.The judge said I did the best slow roll he had ever seen in a moth.

Paul

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Andrew,

How long was that tiger moth based at cambridge, when I was in the ATC,40 years ago one of the officers belonged to the tiger moth group and would take cadets for air experience flights.

Martin P

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