A 5cc version of theNalon Viper model Diesel

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

This is a momentous occasion for me, as it is the first Thread I have started with the new Forum.

I think it might be helpful to say how I intend to go about the necessary moves to get my text and photos on the Forum, to see if it actually works.

Photos are taken with a camera, then transferred to my PC and into Picasa for storage. Selected photos have then been reduced to 600 pixels and exported to my Desktop, with the intention of drag and dropping them, hopefully in the correct order, into the Post.

The idea of a 5cc version of this engine developed from my posting of the original 2.5cc engine which I made during 2023. This led to an exchange of e-mail with Ramon Wilson, who kindly offered me an almost finished centre crankcase of a 5cc version he had started, but abandoned. This I accepted, together with a set of drawings marked up for the 5cc dimensions. However, Ramon being a youngster, works in Metric and I prefer Imperial, so rather than add another set of conversions, I printed off another set of drawings and did the conversions, one at a time, as I got to start each component.  This worked out OK for me.  An accurate measurement of the finished engine gives a swept volume of 4.97 cc.

With the set of drawings that are/were, available from the Model Engine News site, there are two versions of the Cylinder. One being claimed to be a later modification. This has integral steel cooling fins, plus larger transfer and exhaust ports, Timing is slightly different with this version also. Just to make things interesting, I decided to make a third version of the Cylinder, by using the new  port dimensions and timing, but keeping the Aluminium cooling fins. The Cylinder would then have a 26 TPI thread screwcut above the exhaust ports to allow the cooling fins,with the same internal thread, to screw onto the Cylinder, thus doing away with the long 4 holding down screws. The Cylinder flange has been increased to the same shape as the crankcase, giving positive location and the ability to screw it down with shorter screws. Additionally I also made the seperate Aluminium head which the steel fin version requires, but this becomes a dummy head that I have left polished, as a contrast to the red anodising of the fins. I am very pleased with final appearance and cannot wait to hear it scream..  At the moment the engine is fitted into the test rig awating its first run, but the outside temperature is minus 3C and I am certainly not opening the workshop door to avoid being asphyxiated.

I will post again after I have had it running.

That all worked as I intended. Definitely an improvement on the previous way of inserting photos.

Keith.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Look forward to following along . Though should the title be 0.30ci Viper 😉

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Jason, Glow engine size is in CU/IN. Diesel always CC. What are steam engine sizes stated in?

Keith

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Looks fabby Keith. Great work.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Great result Keith, as already said it looks a ‘fine example’ with it’s red anodising. Only too pleased to see that the case was of use. The other one made at the same time is in New Zealand so maybe we’ll hear from Dean later😉

I’ll look forwards to hearing about it’s first run just bear in mind that these five cc diesels have a very nasty bite if they catch you but I’m sure you are well versed in hand starting.

Jason, Keith is more or less correct that diesels tend to be listed in cc. Most UK diesel engines are/were but but there are the odd ones that don’t – PAW for instance. Personally though, like Keith I’ve always preferred the cc demarcation for diesel and using cu in for glows

 

Best – Tug

PS Should have said – great images too 👍. I agree that posting them is now easier as well

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It was a bit of fun as it is built to imperial sizes.

To some extent I think the units are more to do with where an engine is made or sold, plenty of east European competition glow engines are cc and even older mainland European ones too.

The 4-strokes also tend to use cc, even old Westbury designs for the tether boats were based on the competition classes that were cc based and that must be 60-70 years ago.

As for steam engines again I think origin comes into it with American and English giving bore & stroke in inches, Europe metric. They would be closed by NHP or later HP.

Early open crank internal combustion engines were also sold by Horse power rather than capacity and the smaller ones are often referred to as “fractional Horse Power” engines as they may have been sold as 1/8HP or 1/4HP much like electric motors that followed

Not sure what the 4/10th scale model of a 1/2HP engine I’m drawing up at the moment would be classed as particularly as the original was imperial(American) and my version will be metric so maybe something in watts?

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Looks good Kieth its cold hear as well so tested my Sparey 5 in the workshop yesterday and now it smells great when you walk in even with only a 5 second run!

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Jason,   I did realise you had seen the comparison to cu,in some hour later, and I intended to let you know after lunch, but you have beaten me to it.  Thanks for the explanations.

Tug, Thanks for your comments. I always use a Chicken Stick starting these engines. I have a permanently bent forefinger from being bitten many years ago!

Have you heard from Dean regarding Progress?

Keith.

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Bernard,

I noticed your Sparey and thought it looked very nice. Did you make it from the Hemmingway kit? You have managed to get the head fins machined OK . I had a disaster when I machined mine, using Ron Chernich’s advice to use the cylinder as the mandrel and it came loose and scrapped ithe Head. I made a screwed mandrel to hold  the new Head and then it was OK. Ron also called it a ” vibrator” but I took more out of the piston than the drawing said, also the crankweb and I think vibration is not too bad.

Keith.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Yes head fins machined ok on BOTH heads ,the first one has a stupid maths mistake when doing the top fins so I made another (amazing how quick you can turn out a second one!). Yes as I got further on with it I worried about the poor balance so prefabbed a piston which enabled it to be thin all round and at the crown then oversized gudgeon pin hole and silver soldered a cast iron tube in which was then reamed. Only time will tell if it stands up to the punishment!. It was from a Hemingway kit. The EN8M was lovely to machine.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don’t know if you guys do Facebook but this popped up on mine a couple of days ago, guy casting crankcases for the 5cc Sparey. The video of the dies being used is quite interesting.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks for that link Jason – I was not aware of that. Further machining of engines are now very unlikely for myself but I still do a small amount of control line flying 👍

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

The link Jason posted is for the Ukrainian engineer who also produces excellent control line engines of top competition spec, superb work and a very accomlished engineer.

Emgee

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Any news of a run yet Keith ?

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Jason, Hodakov is a really nice guy and very talented engineer. The Ukrainian model engine makers, produce just superb racing and speed and Combat engines, all different in their own ways. But all are very competitive right from the day of purchase.

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Ramon,   For the record, I did have a 2 minute run ,with the door shut. Could not resist hearing it run. Started easily, set it rich and burrp, burrping. Making a lot of smoke,so before I got choked I pinched off the fuel tube, revs went high  and then sudden stop.Prop would not turn past BDC. Took back plate off and discoverd the Disc spindle had unwound inwards and was bent, presumably by hitting the crank pin. Could not see any damage to that, so have made new pin and it is all set up to have another run,with door open, I hope today. I later found the nut and star washer that was supposed to lock the Pin on the floor. I have now replaced it with a Nyloc nut.

Will report later, perhaps after I have had another session.

Keith.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Keith, Oh I know only too well that feeling when you ‘just have to’ 😊 and yes its amazing how soon the area becomes choked with fumes – though the workshop does have the nice aroma of ‘diesel fuel’ for a while after.

Glad no major damage was done so looking forwards to hearing more – at least you know it runs 👍👍

Best – Tug

[dean clarke 2Participant @deanclarke2]

Hi Keith, another fine looking engine, very very nice. I look forward to seeing the video of it running.

I haven’t as yet had the opportunity to do anything with my case but it will definately be happening soon, lol, famous last words.

Hi tug, I have run the 2 engines from you and am very happy with them, although the racer is lacking comp a bit but no problem. The ETA is awesome and I drool over it fairly regularly. Perhaps there’s a future project lurking in the shadows.

I’ll start a new thread when i’m down to start my 5cc naylon viper.

best regards to you both

Dean

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Hi Dean,

Good to hear from you again and thanks for the comments.  I have not had the chance to run the Viper again,as the weather has been cold and wet,with the wind blowing into my workshop and I do not want damp air in there. Weather here looks like getting worse for the next week,so I am not likely to progress futher,in the short term.

You really must finish off the case you have. It will be interesting to compare notes.

Regards,

Keith.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Guys – I haven’t been on here for a while so missed your post Dean.  Good to hear you’ve run them and I think I know why the Racer’s comp is not quite so good. When I made them I made two – one had a steel liner made from some very tough material (ex oil industry stud) and the other a cast iron one. (This was before I read the article on using a cast iron piston in a leaded steel liner which all other engines had) The cast in cast set up quickly bedded in with a slight loss of compression – I didn’t check when I sent you it so that may be the one you have 🙄 I think I still have the drawings – any use?

I had an email from Keith yesterday to say he has now run his – I’m sure he’ll be along later with more details

 

Best – Tug

[KEITH BEAUMONTParticipant @keithbeaumont45476]

Now that the weather has warmed up somewhat, I have had the chance to get some running time in and now have 45 minutes recorded. On one occasion, when running at full chat, around 10,000 RPM plus,the exhaust oil suddenly turned dark brown and with a strong smell of burning castor. I shut down and when cool, took the back off, but could not see any problems,so re-assembled, Subsequent runs have not repeated that, so I am mystified as to what happened, Fuel used is Model Technics  2000.  It is a noisy,thirsty engine and quite powerful and with the 4 way exhaust very dirty.

Attached is a photo of it doing 10,000 plus RPM.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

What a lovely job and especially as it runs so well

[dean clarke 2Participant @deanclarke2]

Hi Keith, glad to see you’ve managed a bit of run time on your upsized viper, be really good to hear it also, nudge nudge, wink wink.

I still haven’t had a chance to look at my case yet but will endeavour to get onto it forthwith.

Regards

Dean

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