Complete newbie question – RC car from scratch

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Complete newbie question – RC car from scratch

Home Forums Beginners questions Complete newbie question – RC car from scratch

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  • #429577
    Chris152
    Participant
      @chris152

      I've joined this forum to try to help my son, who wants to build an RC car from scratch, making all that he can and only buying what he can't make. He loves metalwork at school and I hope to help him along in our workshop at home. Tho I have no metalworking kit at the moment!

      So, have I joined the right forum? I'm not sure exactly what model engineering is – does it cover the kind of project he wants to do?

      Many thanks for any advice, Chris

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      #9865
      Chris152
      Participant
        @chris152
        #429599
        Brian H
        Participant
          @brianh50089

          If it's metalwork then you are definitely in the right place. Mind you, we also work with various plastics, wood and resins etc, not to mention electics and electronics.

          Ask your questions and someone will be sure to come up with the answer.

          Brian

          #429601
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            An idea of scale, type of car and what functions would help as there is less work in a basic 1/12" electric indoor racer to a 1/5th scale IC monster, though I expect he would prefer the second option.

            #429602
            Old School
            Participant
              @oldschool

              I build tether cars the forerunners to RC cars they are pretty fast I hold a few British records at speeds from 163mph to over 200mph actual speed.

              If I can help I will, I live near Leicester.

              #429603
              Chris152
              Participant
                @chris152

                Thanks all!

                Old School – I had to check what a tether car is, that looks amazing, as do the speeds!

                Jason – we just committed to the idea yesterday, tho we've talked about it before. I'm really keen to help as he wants to go down the automotive engineering route as a career. Scale – I'm assuming smaller models are more tricky as the parts are, well, smaller and more fiddly? No idea really. He talked about 1:8, but any advice gratefully received on that one. As for type, he said something based on a Nissan 350Z, but I'm sure that's very approximate – the real interest is the engineering and electronics (he might disagree).

                He's going to ask in school today if he can use the equipment they have to work on his own project; if not, I'll be on the lookout for things we need to do that at home. I don't know what that'll consist of, presumably not cheap. I have plenty of woodworking kit but no metal kit.

                Thanks again for the replies. C

                #429605
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb

                  The specific car is not such an issue as most will be the same mechanicals with just a Lexan bodyshell over the top. You can get them in both 1/8th and 1/10th scale for the nissan and as that is a part that would be hard to make best bought in.

                  Body suggests a track or drift car and with modern motors electric will suit both scales and possibly the simpler to build but more electronical engineering than mechanical, IC would be more have been more usual on 1/8th but the smaller engines are now readily available for 1/10th scale too.usual.

                  #429611
                  Mark Gould 1
                  Participant
                    @markgould1

                    I had never heard of a tether car either and was amazed by what I saw after Googling them!

                    #429627
                    Jeff Dayman
                    Participant
                      @jeffdayman43397

                      Hi Chris152, It's great that you are supporting your son in this car project. Whatever you guys build, he will learn invaluable skills for his future work, as well as the satisfaction of making something.

                      Just an idea for body shell construction- as Jason mentioned many RC cars use a vacuum formed Lexan shell, and that is a great way to do it. But another way, considering you mentioned your woodworking skills, would be to make a wooden body form or "buck" and lay up a couple of layers of fibreglass on it with polyester resin. Boatbuilders and model aircraft builders still use this method, and very fine weave fibreglass cloth is available. You could make the form a "negative" cavity, boat style, and use a gel coat for a fine finish, or make a "positive" core or buck, lay up the glass, and finish with body filler. It might be easier to carve a "positive" core or buck than a "negative" cavity.

                      The vacuum formed bodies are made on a "positive" buck usually but require use of a vacuum forming machine. The benefit of the fibreglass method is that you don't need any machine to do it, just gloves and a paintbrush , and a nice sunny day outdoors (the fumes of the resin are smelly and lots of ventilation is a must). Costs of resin and fibreglass cloth are relatively low. The method is scalable, too – lots of full size kit cars and 100 foot yachts are made of fibreglass the same way. Have a google for Burt Rutan / Scaled Composites to see how far you can go with fibreglass technology.

                      Good luck with the project.

                      #429628
                      Bazyle
                      Participant
                        @bazyle

                        You need a shed, or part of the garage as a workshop. I wouldn't buy any tools for a while until you know a bit more. Just some stuff to complement what is at work.

                        #429629
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          Further two what Jeff said about the bodyshell you are probably now more likely to find a vac former in the DT department of a British school than a lathe so that may be a possibility.

                          There are also plenty of 3D cad files of suitable Nissans that can be downloaded, these could be used to 3D print the buck or former or some slicing software used to make a series of profiles along the length of the car to guide you while using more traditional methods.

                          The school my well also have a small CNC router that could be put to good use making components from fibreglass or carbon fibre sheet.

                          It's been a few years since as a teen I built a complete rear end for a 1/8th scale IC buggy with adjustable camber, wheelbase, anti roll bar etc. All done in the loft with a Unimat lathe

                          #429633
                          Chris152
                          Participant
                            @chris152

                            I think it'd be great if he could shape the body by himself, so we'll look into that – I've done some (v little) work with glass fibre/ epoxy, so definitely an option – but I also remember a school I worked in many years ago having a vacuum-forming machine, which maybe they have in his school. And they have cnc. They seem pretty well equipped, he's done welding, lathe work and other things that I understand some schools stopped on account of potential risks. And the good news is, he's been told he can use the kit they have so long as he organises it with teachers (he's just started a-levels, so gets free periods). Saves me money and means he can make mess there and bring bits home to assemble/ work on the electronics at home.

                            I really appreciate your replies, tbh when I first posted I wondered if we could do it but I'm starting to feel more confident. Thank you!

                            #429646
                            Brian G
                            Participant
                              @briang

                              As far as the electronics are concerned, perhaps look at DT (Deltang) receivers and transmitter modules for a DIY build. I have found Micron R/C very helpful.

                              Brian

                              #429671
                              Old School
                              Participant
                                @oldschool

                                This car body was made using a blue foam plug you simply shape the foam to make a plug to build the body onto no need to worry about draft angles or getting the plug out of the finished body.

                                Now cover the plug with glass cloth I use a lightweight cloth around 28g square metre build up a few layers at a time allow to cure rub down till smooth more layers of glass repeat until get to the thickness you want. I use epoxy resin.

                                Then cut out the foam and melt out the rest with solvent it's quick and easy for complex shapes.

                                 

                                image.jpeg

                                 

                                Edited By Old School on 19/09/2019 20:14:46

                                #429712
                                I.M. OUTAHERE
                                Participant
                                  @i-m-outahere

                                  I remember when i was in high school and absolutely hooked on RC cars, i would peruse the few R/C magazines in the school library and marvel at some of the cars people had built -one was a 4wd chain driven twin motor jobby that I literally drooled the print off the pages ! Anyhow some 40yrs later i have restored , built ,made and raced a lot of cars – mostly on road but id play around with offroad stuff occasionally.

                                  I would advise you to sit down with your son and figure out exactly what he wants to build as there are a few options that will require different skill sets .

                                  So a list similar to this might get you both pointed in the right direction :

                                  On road or offroad – remembering that an offroad car can drive on a road but an on road car will struggle if it has low ground clearance.

                                  Electric or internal combustion engine – mostly governs your drive system and battery requirements and is governed by the size of the car – big cars need big motors and the line trimmer engine is perfect for big cars.

                                  Suspension or a basic pan car – setting up and making suspension components adds to complexity and will require machinery, a pan car has no suspension and is a lot easier to make ( just for clarity i call a pan car a car that is made from a flat plate chassis , no suspension and no differential) some have different descriptions.

                                  Physical size – 1/12 ,1/10,1/8 or 1/5 – bigger is easier to make but will cost a bit more for materials but you can use engines from old line trimmers to power it but you will need beefier servos to control it.

                                  Radios – this is an area you don’t want to skimp on so don’t use those cheapie radios as they have a small transmission range and usually no failsafe features .

                                  You used to be able to download a car set up guide from Hudy which explained in great detail how suspension geometry , shock settings and spring rates worked – the basic fundamentals are the same for a model car or a full sized vehicle – physics is physics – it doesn’t change .

                                  #429744
                                  Dave Halford
                                  Participant
                                    @davehalford22513

                                    You could build a lot of a Mardave Maruder with basic tools

                                    #429751
                                    JasonB
                                    Moderator
                                      @jasonb

                                      Not sure about the Maruder being possible with basic tools but their stock cars are a lot more basic in construction being solid rear axle and rudamentry front springs.

                                      Still got my Maruder in a cupboard, twin wishbone front and single wishbone independent rear suspension would tale a bit more tooling.

                                      #429791
                                      Neil Wyatt
                                      Moderator
                                        @neilwyatt

                                        I had a Tamiya XR311 when I was a (lucky) teenager. pretty much where off-road RC started, although it was only 2 wheel drive. Went like stink with two extra nicads on the back seat.

                                        Makes me feel like getting another one!

                                        Neil

                                        #429793
                                        Hollowpoint
                                        Participant
                                          @hollowpoint

                                          I used to be into nitro RC cars when I was younger so may be able to help.

                                          If you have never had an RC car and you are just starting out with machining it might be easier to buy a cheap second hand car and simply copy all the parts in metal, or adapt to your own design IMO.

                                          #429794
                                          JasonB
                                          Moderator
                                            @jasonb

                                            I had the Rough Rider when I was about 14, that is where it really started as they were the first ones people started to race. The XR311 and the Lambo were a year or so before that.

                                            #429796
                                            Andrew Evans
                                            Participant
                                              @andrewevans67134

                                              Neil, I had a Tamiya as a kid too – the pick up truck, it was very fast but the suspension and steering always needed fixing. You can get them now but they are very expensive. I not sure what happened to mine, probably got sold when I left home.

                                              Chris – good luck.

                                              #429818
                                              Jon Lawes
                                              Participant
                                                @jonlawes51698

                                                ..and I came from an RC10 background!

                                                I think the hardest part of the build is likely to be finding a suitable gearbox; may I suggest something like a tamiya DT-02 gearbox? It takes a standard 540 sized motor (the most popular motor size, so it allows you lots of interesting brushless upgrades) and has an integral diferential with output to dogbone style drives that should be easy to build. Many people buy tamiya kits to seperate out to sell on auction sites for those that require spares so the bits will be easily found. It also has convenient mounting points to allow it to be mounted to a simple frame.

                                                I would suggest you look at the design of the Kyosho 2wd buggies such as the Tomahawk; for all intents and purposes this is two pieces of solid square section bar bent up at an angle at the front, and joined together with flat plates for the speed controller, radio gear and such. the motor hangs off the back.

                                                Flysky 2 channel 2.4GHZ radio gear such as the GT2 will be ideal for this project; it's cheap and reliable, and when you want to add another car you just spend another fiver on a receiver and pair it to the transmitter.

                                                #429820
                                                Jon Lawes
                                                Participant
                                                  @jonlawes51698

                                                  Another quick point, Nitro is fun and all, but a good electric brushless setup with a lipo is simple, clean, rapid charging (but you need the right charger) and astonishing power. Way more reliable than nitro and more cost effective too.

                                                  #429838
                                                  Chris152
                                                  Participant
                                                    @chris152

                                                    Thanks so much for all the replies! A bit overwhelming, so we'll need to carefully read through together and see where it leads. Quite a bit already goes over my head, hopefully less so his. I'm especially surprised by the precision needed in setup – those blocks listed on the Hudy site made that clear, XD. But as you say, physics is physics and that's what I'm hoping he'll get to immerse himself in – the practical application of what he's learning in school.

                                                    And thanks for the offers of help, no doubt we'll be taking you up on those in the months to come!

                                                    Cheers, C.

                                                    #429843
                                                    JasonB
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @jasonb

                                                      A lot will depend on what your son wants out of the car and how much he can put into it. A very simple flat or pan chassis with solid rear axle and primative front suspension will be relatively easy to make with minimal tools, there are budget race classes for cars like this such as the Mardave cars.

                                                      At the other end of the scale you can have fully adjustable suspension, diffs, gearboxes 4WD etc which will require more work and equipment and possibly buying in more parts. Some people do get a bit carried away and also make the engines too such as this V10 powered car which is right at the opposite end of the scale compared to a Mardave

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