Parting off – again, sorry

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Parting off – again, sorry

Home Forums Beginners questions Parting off – again, sorry

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  • #375442
    petro1head
    Participant
      @petro1head

      I am still strugling with parting off.

      I make sure the tool is square to the work. I use cutting fluid.

      However the tool seems to deflect

      20181011_103442.jpg

      This is the tool I am using

      20181011_103515.jpg

      So any idea why its defecting, too thin a tool, its 2mm.

      Would I be better using a 3mm tool instead?

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      #9371
      petro1head
      Participant
        @petro1head
        #375443
        not done it yet
        Participant
          @notdoneityet

          Do you lock the carriage and top slide?

          #375444
          Brian Sweeting 2
          Participant
            @briansweeting2

            Reduce the amount of tool sticking out from toolpost may help a bit.

            #375445
            ega
            Participant
              @ega

              Assuming that the tool is indeed advancing at right angles, you could try swapping out the tip; the present one may be cutting unequally across its width. Difficult to say from the photo but it should be examined critically under a lens.

              #375446
              petro1head
              Participant
                @petro1head
                Posted by not done it yet on 11/10/2018 11:02:04:

                Do you lock the carriage and top slide?

                Good question, no

                Problem is the dro scales cover the locking screws

                #375447
                petro1head
                Participant
                  @petro1head
                  Posted by Brian Sweeting on 11/10/2018 11:07:08:

                  Reduce the amount of tool sticking out from toolpost may help a bit.

                  Cant because its the right length for the work

                  #375448
                  petro1head
                  Participant
                    @petro1head
                    Posted by ega on 11/10/2018 11:12:02:

                    Assuming that the tool is indeed advancing at right angles, you could try swapping out the tip; the present one may be cutting unequally across its width. Difficult to say from the photo but it should be examined critically under a lens.

                    So, easier to just try a new tip

                    #375451
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      On a deep cut you may find it better to set the tool projection so it will go half way and then set the tool further out of the holder to complete the cut.

                      A 2mm blade should be OK, thats what I use and don't get any deflection. If one corner of the tip has become damaged or worn that will also tend to push it sideways

                      #375453
                      Oldiron
                      Participant
                        @oldiron

                        Could be that you are using much to slow a spindle speed and too fast advancement. I find these tip tools cut much better at higher speeds.

                        regards

                        #375457
                        petro1head
                        Participant
                          @petro1head
                          Posted by JasonB on 11/10/2018 11:27:18:

                          On a deep cut you may find it better to set the tool projection so it will go half way and then set the tool further out of the holder to complete the cut.

                          A 2mm blade should be OK, thats what I use and don't get any deflection. If one corner of the tip has become damaged or worn that will also tend to push it sideways

                           

                          Posted by Oldiron on 11/10/2018 11:31:52:

                          Could be that you are using much to slow a spindle speed and too fast advancement. I find these tip tools cut much better at higher speeds.

                          regards

                          What sort of speed would you advise?

                          Edited By petro1head on 11/10/2018 11:59:32

                          #375458
                          Brian Oldford
                          Participant
                            @brianoldford70365

                            Fit a rear tool-post then all should be sweetness and light with great rejoicing in heaven and on earth.

                            #375459
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              What sort of diameter are you cutting as that will affect speed.

                              I seem to manage OK without a rear post and a similar 2mm blade, 1/16" slice off 2.5" cast iron and less than a thou variation in thickness!

                              #375461
                              A Smith
                              Participant
                                @asmith78105

                                I use a 2mm inserted tip parting off tool with great success on my Myford ML7. It is fitted in a quick change tool holder. I used to struggle with parting off, things improved when I discovered the carriage lock! and again, years later, when I purchased the inserted tip tool from JB tools. I have a rear toolpost but haven't felt the need to use it, as yet.

                                Andy

                                #375463
                                ega
                                Participant
                                  @ega

                                  JasonB:

                                  Did you use tailstock support and if so at what stage did you retract the centre?

                                  #375464
                                  Howard Lewis
                                  Participant
                                    @howardlewis46836

                                    You are not alone!

                                    But I make a rod for my own back, even with the saddle locked, by grinding the HSS tool with an angle on the front, to minimise a "pip" on the workpiece.

                                    I do not expect a slim tool, or tool holder not flex, so after parting off, I face the end of the work, which also gives a better finish. Any slight force will deflect the tool or the holder in the case of inserted tips. hence Jason's advice to cut a little, and then advance the tool, until the cut is complete.

                                    Parting off with the tool mounted on a back toolpost causes much fewer problems.

                                    Howard

                                    #375466
                                    HOWARDT
                                    Participant
                                      @howardt

                                      I work on a Sieg SC3, use a HSS-Co8 parting blade clamped in a home made holder that clamps the blade in the side face. The blade has no top rake, only ground on the front. HSS-Co8 is much tougher than a straight HSS blade, the ones I use are I assume Chinesium but they work. When I first had the lathe I had a carbide insert holder, but gave up on it after having to use a HSS blade when the supplier was shut.

                                      Saddle is clamped to the bed, after positioning. Compund slide is tightened but not fully clamped, the reason for this is so I can make a wider cut than the single blade width. I do this so that the swarf clears the side of the blade, I take a plunge cut, then move slightly to the side to take a second as I move the blade in. Cutting speed is around 400RPM, dependant on diameter, adjust to suit diameter as you feel confident. Don't overhang the compound slide from the cross slide as this will allow movement on a small machine. I have cut unto 75mm diameter in steel, it took time but it did cut. Use a cutting oil to keep the tip cool, I use a spray cutting fluid from Toolstation. Most of my work is with steel, softer metals like brass and phosphor bronze are less of an issue.

                                      #375467
                                      petro1head
                                      Participant
                                        @petro1head
                                        Posted by JasonB on 11/10/2018 12:13:36:

                                        What sort of diameter are you cutting as that will affect speed.

                                        I seem to manage OK without a rear post and a similar 2mm blade, 1/16" slice off 2.5" cast iron and less than a thou variation in thickness!

                                        38mm ali

                                        #375471
                                        Mick B1
                                        Participant
                                          @mickb1

                                          My two penn'orth:

                                          Looking at you photo of the tool, I'm thinking I can see a tiny wedge of support on the lower edge of the insert location that suggests the insert is skewed rightwards. Can't tell if the insert is properly vertical or not, but if it isn't the right-hand side of the tool might be rubbing, unable to cut, and so forcing the left-hand side to dig in further and deflect the supporting blade that way.

                                          The fact that there's also a significant bit of the support projecting forward underneath the insert suggests to me that there's summat up with its location.

                                          #375473
                                          JasonB
                                          Moderator
                                            @jasonb

                                            I also noticed that Mick, maybe the holder has been twisted in a previous lock up.

                                            If you are cutting 38mm ali then why do you have a good 35mm plus of tool sticking out? I can see the "2" showing part way along which indicates 20mm projection and that is enough to go through 38mm stock.

                                            Speed wise put it in the slower speed range but run towards max 900-1000 and feed briskly.

                                            #375478
                                            Ron Laden
                                            Participant
                                              @ronladen17547
                                              Posted by JasonB on 11/10/2018 13:16:16:

                                               

                                              Speed wise put it in the slower speed range but run towards max 900-1000 and feed briskly.

                                              I recently turned a set of buffers from 35mm dia ali and Jasons advice above is pretty much what I found worked for me using a 1.5mm HSS tool. Moving up to a 3mm tool I would avoid if my experience with one is anything to go by. If you are using a mini-lathe as I am I would argue that a 3mm parting tool is too much for them. I have a HSS 3.2mm tool and the lathe just doesnt like it, even with ali, I tried everything I could but it was not happy.

                                              Edited By Ron Laden on 11/10/2018 14:03:25

                                              Edited By Ron Laden on 11/10/2018 14:18:05

                                              #375481
                                              petro1head
                                              Participant
                                                @petro1head
                                                Posted by Mick B1 on 11/10/2018 12:59:16:

                                                My two penn'orth:

                                                Looking at you photo of the tool, I'm thinking I can see a tiny wedge of support on the lower edge of the insert location that suggests the insert is skewed rightwards. Can't tell if the insert is properly vertical or not, but if it isn't the right-hand side of the tool might be rubbing, unable to cut, and so forcing the left-hand side to dig in further and deflect the supporting blade that way.

                                                The fact that there's also a significant bit of the support projecting forward underneath the insert suggests to me that there's summat up with its location.

                                                Thats becuse just before taking the photo I had the tool on the bench so must have knocked it.

                                                #375482
                                                petro1head
                                                Participant
                                                  @petro1head
                                                  Posted by Ron Laden on 11/10/2018 13:59:59:

                                                  Posted by JasonB on 11/10/2018 13:16:16:

                                                  Speed wise put it in the slower speed range but run towards max 900-1000 and feed briskly.

                                                  I recently turned a set of buffers from 35mm dia ali and Jasons advice above is pretty much what I found worked for me using a 1.5mm HSS tool. Moving up to a 3mm tool I would avoid if my experience with one is anything to go by. If you are using a mini-lathe as I am I would argue that a 3mm parting tool is too much for them. I have a HSS 3.2mm tool and the lathe just doesnt like it, even with ali, I tried everything I could but it was not happy.

                                                  Edited By Ron Laden on 11/10/2018 14:03:25

                                                  Edited By Ron Laden on 11/10/2018 14:18:05

                                                  I am using a Warco 290 lahe, not mini more like maxi

                                                  #375484
                                                  JasonB
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @jasonb
                                                    Posted by ega on 11/10/2018 12:30:27:

                                                    JasonB:

                                                    Did you use tailstock support and if so at what stage did you retract the centre?

                                                    In that case I did, if you look at the chuck jaws you will see that they are closed up on what is a fairly small chucking spigot hidden out of sight. I did not want to take any chances of the force from the parting cut pulling the work out of the chuck, probably removed the tailstock when I got down to about the diameter of the chucking spigot. This is someone else doing the same thing on the same engine part.

                                                    xtype disc.jpeg

                                                    #375485
                                                    SillyOldDuffer
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @sillyoldduffer

                                                      I hit this problem occasionally with blade type holders when the blade is well out. It seems more likely to happen when the slides are unlocked.

                                                      My pet theory is that if the tool is slightly off-square, and the blade is extended, and the slides are unlocked, then there's enough leverage to either move the carriage or to flex the blade. Unfortunately I'm not able to prove it!

                                                      I've not found it easy to align a parting tool exactly square to the work. More likely one side or the other of the tip will start cutting first putting a sideways force on the blade. How big the force is I've no idea, but it might be enough cause petro1head's problem.

                                                      What's the best way of making sure a parting tool is exactly square as opposed to 'looks OK to me guv'?

                                                      Dave

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