Chassis suspension..?

Chassis suspension..?

Home Forums Beginners questions Chassis suspension..?

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #353341
    Ron Laden
    Participant
      @ronladen17547

      Morning guys,

      Yet another beginners question.. sorry.

      The 5 inch electric 0-4–0 loco I am designing/building I currently have as a fixed chassis (no axle suspension). I can appreciate that sprung axles can give better running but is it essential or is fixed ok…?

      The wheel base I have is 11 inch using 3.1/4" wheels.

      Many thanks

      Regards

      Ron

      #9182
      Ron Laden
      Participant
        @ronladen17547
        #353349
        Redsetter
        Participant
          @redsetter

          This is not something you should ask model engineers, as many of them will say that of course it should be fully sprung, as per prototype. But you are not making a model – you are making a small locomotive to do a job, and have some fun with.

          You can certainly get away without springing on a simple loco that is only going to run slowly, but a bit of "compliance," and not necessarily conventional springs, will improve running as you say, and give better adhesion, and it need not be a lot of extra work.

          Look at the earlier Maxitrak 4 wheel locos for ideas. Some have two rigid axles and some have only one axle sprung, or pivoted centrally to provide compensation. These are successful commercial products that pull loads and stay on the track.

          #353353
          Hacksaw
          Participant
            @hacksaw

            If on a loco one wheel on one side goes over a bump ,and that axle rises, on that side , so that axle is at an angle , why doesn't the axle jam ? Where is the slack ? In the wheel bearing , or axle box sliding bit ?

            #353358
            Redsetter
            Participant
              @redsetter

              It is in the axle box sliding bit.

              #353369
              Ron Laden
              Participant
                @ronladen17547

                Good question Hacksaw, that had crossed my mind.

                I remember looking over a 0-4-0 at a show last year which had sprung axle boxes/blocks, they housed the axle bearing and had two vertical channels machined from top to bottom, one each side of the blocks. The chassis 1/8" steel side frames had a square U shape machined in them which the blocks slid up and down in with two springs mounted at the bottom of the block.

                Would I be correct in thinking that the channels in the block sides would have additional clearance to allow the blocks to tilt in and out – top and bottom allowing the angle of axle to change with the movement of the suspension.

                cheers

                Ron

                #353389
                Bazyle
                Participant
                  @bazyle

                  It is a good idea to provide at least one axle with suspension. Model tracks are seldom level and points and joints often have discontinuities.

                  On a freelance model it is also a good idea to put in guard irons and horizontal stretchers just above the rail level so that when the loco or driving trolley do come off they land on that not crashing down on the sleepers and possibly bending brake gear etc.

                  #353394
                  Boiler Bri
                  Participant
                    @boilerbri

                    I made a riding trolley with no suspension. At every bump it de railed. dont know

                    I now have some. 8 mm travel with springs

                    Bri

                    #353398
                    Ron Laden
                    Participant
                      @ronladen17547

                      I must admit I didnt imagine any of this, its all sounding a bit scary…surprise

                      Ron

                      #353402
                      Redsetter
                      Participant
                        @redsetter

                        Ron, It was certainly not my intention to scare you, as you asked a very sensible question. As you can see there is no hard and fast answer. It depends on what you are trying to do.

                        For what it is worth, I have two unsprung 4 wheel driving trucks, both give a hard ride but neither is prone to derailments. However the situation with driving trucks is different as they carry more weight than a small electric loco.

                        It is important for a beginner to get something running, and if you have a simple unsprung design in mind that you can get on the track quickly, why not go for it? It is bound to need improvements of some sort once you have tried it, they always do. I think the key for an unsprung design is to make it as heavy as possible and not to make the chassis too rigid. Others may disagree!

                        #353413
                        Ron Laden
                        Participant
                          @ronladen17547

                          Hi Red, well only scary in that my main passengers will probably be both our great grand daughters (5 yrs & 6 yrs) and our local track is a raised one. Not only raised but some of it is on elevated banks so wouldnt want any accidents.

                          I,m quite happy with my design and I,m hoping that it should run well but I,m now wondering if I should add suspension to improve it further. I went back to my drawings earlier this evening and it wouldnt be that difficult to add spring mounted sliding axle boxes. As it is at the moment the axles are fixed and running in bearings mounted on the chassis side frames.

                          Will have to give it more thought and decide which way to go fixed or sprung.

                          Something else which threw me somewhat is the wheel back to back dimension, from GL5 specs I have drawn it up as 4.5/8" – 117.4 mm. I received 2 axles and 4 wheels today and the axles are giving a back to back of 119.2 mm. I,m now wondering if that is too wide but the supplier said it is all to GL5..?

                          cheers

                          Ron

                          #353436
                          Ron Laden
                          Participant
                            @ronladen17547

                            Re-visited the design and decided to go with sprung axles, it means some more parts but I think it will be an improvement. My only problem is that apart from a small pillar drill I dont have a lathe or a mill so I have to buy in/get made all machined parts, I do know a couple of people though so that helps.

                            Ron

                            p.s. Anyone have any thoughts on the back to back measurements..?

                            #353437
                            Redsetter
                            Participant
                              @redsetter

                              Pm sent.

                              #353453
                              Howard Lewis
                              Participant
                                @howardlewis46836

                                Am not a loco man as such, but judged by what i saw at the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway, after adjusting the springs on driving axles to give equal loads, they had a lot fewer problems with slippage, and broken springs.

                                So suspension, properly set up brings benefits.

                                Howard

                                #353464
                                Bazyle
                                Participant
                                  @bazyle

                                  Just in case it's not obvious the important thing about back-to-back is for the wheels to pass though the check rails on points but at the same time not be wide enough for the wheel flange to hit the nose of the point frog. However the wheels need a bit of clearance to avoid jamming between two opposing check rails. I suspect your supplier was thinking of this.

                                  #353466
                                  Redsetter
                                  Participant
                                    @redsetter

                                    I don't think points will be too much of a problem on a raised track.

                                    #353468
                                    duncan webster 1
                                    Participant
                                      @duncanwebster1

                                      SMEE standard for back to back is 4.687 (119 mm), just looked it up, so is GL5

                                      Edited By duncan webster on 10/05/2018 14:44:15

                                      #353496
                                      Ron Laden
                                      Participant
                                        @ronladen17547

                                        Thanks guys, the GL5 standard I looked at gave 4.625 (117.4 mm) as the back to back but mentions a back to back of 4.687 (119 mm) for better clearance of check rails. Our local track is raised so no points but I may one day visit a ground level track with points.

                                        Ron

                                        #353549
                                        Neil Wyatt
                                        Moderator
                                          @neilwyatt

                                          Springing will improve its adhesion, and therefore its pulling power.

                                          No springing won't stop it working, but it will work better wit at least one sprung axle.

                                          If you want simplicity, copy what I did for my driving truck. Each axle passes through a swinging arm at each end, with a ball race fitted in it. The ordinary ball race happily permits a small amount of mis-alignment over the width of the axle. Springing is just a piece of dense rubber between the arm and the chassis which has the advantage of being progressive and largely indifferent to the exact size and position of the block. It works perfectly, unlike teh original springs with adjusters the blocks replaced (see below).

                                          dscn2211[1].jpg

                                        Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
                                        • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                        Latest Replies

                                        Home Forums Beginners questions Topics

                                        Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                        Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                        View full reply list.