Strange angle ?

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Strange angle ?

This topic has 38 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 10 March 2011 at 21:03 by Stuart C.

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5 March 2011 at 21:53 #65054
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
Hi everyone,

new to the forum and straight away looking for help.

Just bought a Boxford lathe, the angle graduations on the top of the cross slide are a bit odd in that they are offset by about 18 degrees.

All lathes I’ve seen previously have the zero at 90 degrees to the bed, on this one the zero is set about 18 degrees anti-clockwise.

So if you set the compound slide with a square to the cross slide it reads 18 degrees.

Does anybody know why this might be, could it have been made for a specific job?

Thanks,

S.
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5 March 2011 at 21:53 #5434
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
6 March 2011 at 16:48 #65094
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
OK no responses.

I’ve looked again and it’s 15 degrees not 18 as I said, innacuracy of initial reading due to having to lean over a load of stuff at an angle to see it.

Does anybody know where I may get an answer.

I’ll ring Boxford in the morning to see if they know, any other suggestions..
6 March 2011 at 16:59 #65097
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi Stuart, maybe it was a Friday afternoon job.

But seriously I’ve haven’t come across it, perhaps it was a special order.

Regards Nick
6 March 2011 at 17:16 #65098
Gone Away
Participant
@goneaway
If I understand correctly, that would give a greater range in one direction than the other wouldn’t it?

Perhaps that had something to do with it.
6 March 2011 at 17:21 #65099
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Any chance the ring with the calibrations on it has moved as unlike a lot of lathes the boxford has the angles on a separate ring fixed to the cross slide rather than just a mark and the angles on the side of the topslide.

J

Edited By JasonB on 06/03/2011 17:23:59
6 March 2011 at 17:22 #65100
Peter G. Shaw
Participant
@peterg-shaw75338
How about what may well be a silly answer. I don’t suppose that either the fiducial mark, or the scale are adjustable are they?

On the otherhand, is there another fiducial mark elsewhere?

Just a thought.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw
6 March 2011 at 18:10 #65106
Saxalby
Participant
@saxalby
As JasonB said the degree ring has come loose and moved. On my Boxford the ring was just stuck in (thin double sided tape). Years of oil and cutting fluid just released it. Cleaned it all up and used a drop of Loctite to re-fix it.
6 March 2011 at 20:38 #65111
AndyP
Participant
@andyp13730
Stuart,

My Boxford MkII AUD has the same 15 degree offset of the scale but the fiducial mark (there is only one) on the topslide is so positioned that setting to 0 gives topslide movement parallel (approximately) to the lathe axis. If it is a mistake it is a common one. My lathe came from a fellow club member who bought it new so it has not been messed about with as far as I know.

I notice that the MkIII on lathes.co.uk does not show this feature,

Cheers, Andy
6 March 2011 at 23:25 #65117
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
As you can see from the top image the scale is marked into the cross slide so there is no separate ring.

The bottom image is set to the zero position and as you can see the compound slide is clearly not in line with the bed, if you take the cross slide Tee slots as parallel to the bed, which they are.
6 March 2011 at 23:32 #65118
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
Just been thinking, it is an AUD 2 and as Andy says maybe the fiducial mark should be at an angle also, which may mean that the compound slide has at some point been replaced with an incorrect one.

Possible solution is to get the correct angle by doing some ‘test turning’ and then make the proper mark on the compound slide.

Edited By Stuart Cookson-Smith on 06/03/2011 23:35:08
7 March 2011 at 00:29 #65119
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Stuart,

I have had a lot of experience with Boxfords of all vintages in my teaching career and I cannot recall having seen an engraved scale offset like yours. My own had the scale engraved so that when the fiducial was set to zero the top slide was very accurately parallel to the centre line, but it was on a standard cross slide, not a slotted one.

Yours may have been a special and I would take the action you have suggested to mark a new fiducial. However, out of interest it may be worth a call to Boxford as there are still some of the older employees still working there who know about these machines. At least there were a couple of years ago when I last had reason to call them. The people there are very helpful, friendly and genuinely interested in their products, old and new.

Best regards

Terry
7 March 2011 at 00:42 #65120
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
thanks, I will give them a call, and let you know the outcome.

By the way, you guys seem to call it a top slide, whereas I call it a compound slide, I was under the impression that if it was capable of angles it was a compound slide, am I wrong.

‘Every day is a school day’ … as they say.
7 March 2011 at 01:44 #65127
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi Stuart, I believe top slide and compound slide are one and the same thing, depending on which side of the big pond you are on, but I think if it is refered to a top slide, it dosen’t always rotate, but I don’t think many are like that.

However in the book I have “Know Your Lathe” 1988 edition Boxford refers to the “Compond Rest” which is the part you rotate about the scale, which is engraved on the cross slide, and is fitted into the cross slide. The “Tool or Top Slide” can be moved along the ways of the compond rest with the compond leadscrew. The toolholder is mounted on the tool or top slide.

So they have seem to have given the whole caboodle two names, but of course altering the angle of the compond rest, also alters the angle of the tool/top slide automatically.

Well that is how I have interpreted what is written.

Regards Nick.
7 March 2011 at 08:42 #65134
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
Hi Nick, that all sounds common sense, thanks.

Been thinking about this this morning and rather than take a cut on a bar, I can just use a dti in the toolpost on a good parallel bar between centres, that would be the quicker way of doing it and means I don’t have to do any of the cutting-measuring, cutting-measuring, cutting-measuring………………
7 March 2011 at 18:59 #65156
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
Spoke to Boxford today, they said to ring back on Wednesay when the guru on AUDs is in to get the best info on this lathe.

The chap I did speak to said that my idea of using some bar and a dti is as good as any and that would be the best bet to make a new index mark.
7 March 2011 at 19:08 #65157
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
Are you sure the cross slide is BOXFORD ? South bend is the same form and fit, but I don’t know about the protractor. I had a modified Myford top slide on my Boxford so that I had ‘T’ slots.

A standard Boxford cross slide doesn’t have ‘T’ slots but it apperas your lathe has.
7 March 2011 at 19:20 #65161
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
I’ve recently seen another AUD 2 and that also has the graduations offset anti-clockwise by 15 degrees(but with the correct mark on the compound slide), so I am pretty sure that the compound slide has been changed at some point in the past.
7 March 2011 at 22:19 #65169
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Stuart,

I usually refer to the adjustable (‘top’) slide as the compound slide, but many on this forum refer to it as the top slide as opposed to the cross slide and saddle. Many reserve the term ‘compound slide’ for the combination of cross slide and top slide, and there are so called ‘authoritative’ sources for all of these definitions. It is very confusing.

Best regards

Terry
7 March 2011 at 22:41 #65171
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Robert,

Boxford offered a slotted cross slide as an optional extra, at least on the A and B models. Most school workshops would be equipped with at least one Boxford so equipped and they were common in industry.

Tony at lathes.co.uk offers new versions for those who wish to upgrade and G and M tools often have them from dismantled machines,

Regards

Terry
8 March 2011 at 15:02 #65193
chris stephens
Participant
@chrisstephens63393
Hi Guys,

Top slide v. Compound slide.

Well, my copy of The “ME” lathe Manual by E.T. Westbury (we are all model engineers here, aren’t we?) calls the item in question a “Top Slide” and that is good enough for me!

chriStephens

PS on the OP topic.There is no point in marking your new fiducial using a DTI or any other “precise” way. Just set the original mark to 15 (if it is in fact 15 out) and mark the new one at “0”. The marks are wide enough to be in-accurate if used by themselves for exact angle setting.

Use a DTI for setting the top slide parallel, if you should ever need it for turning parallel. Remember that the saddle is the part of the lathe that is used for parallel turning, the top slide is for turning tapers from anywhere between “0” or “90”degrees. The top slide set to a shade under 6 degrees is more useful than set parallel because you can take a very small measured cut off the diameter of your work
8 March 2011 at 18:41 #65207
Stuart C
Participant
@stuartc
From the research I’ve done(including the literature from when I was an apprentice a long long time ago) it is known as a compound slide if it can cut angles.

Ones that are not adjustable for the angle are the simpler top slide.
8 March 2011 at 21:40 #65219
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Stuart,

While I agree, and I have always known the rotating top slide as the ‘compound’, there are those that argue that the tool can still only be moved in one direction once the angle is set. However the combination of cross slide and top slide allows compound movement in two directions. And if you add in the longitudinal movement of the saddle that gives three directions, which i have also heard described as ‘the compound’.

I suppose it’s a case of yer pays yer money………….

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 08/03/2011 21:43:14
9 March 2011 at 09:08 #65233
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
I have a type 13 DSG and the topslide / compound slide (delete as appropriate) did cause me several hours of head scratching until I finally worked it all out.
9 March 2011 at 09:39 #65240
Keith Lomman
Participant
@keithlomman57852
Hi

Back in the Sixties in a Railway Depot we had a Leblond Lathe from the War years .

The top slide on this lathe was made with the axis set around to I think about 27 deg Anti Clockwise from 90 to the bed.

The sides of the slide were flush with the cross slide and this was “Normal” .position

At http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNsKVPM2BI a very large leblond is shown working and this has the same top slide.

Could the Boxford be built in a similar way. No changing the top slide to cut threads.

Regards

Keith
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