A little distracted from LBSC

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A little distracted from LBSC

This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 31 August 2018 at 18:32 by Chris_C.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)

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2 June 2018 at 05:06 #356167
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
It's been a while since I have posted, and I apologize.

Here's a little bit that I have been working on for some friends down on the cape, a typical Martin Evans mess.

Natal, what could be easily one of my favorite designs ever. It's just a massive mess.

Of course, being a design nerd that I am, I have decided to alter the design using the Craftsman models 15F as the basis for both the 15CA and a revised 15F.

Here's the start of the 15CA.

Here's a head on of the 16DA, Natal.

I must admit, I have now seen how Martin Evans earned the nick name of Martin Errors.

It should be noted, that my grandfather was a controller of Portuguese railways in Mozambique. That is why I think I am attracted so much to Cape locomotives.

I haven't forgotten about my work with LBSC.
I have a friend that is a head librarian now- who has agreed to help me obtain the original articles that I am missing of Curly's. I think that it is safe to say a good starting point would be to compile them all and see if Model Engineer magazine would be interested in a "Curly Omnibus" of sorts.

As far as drafting his designs, that is another matter entirely.
Now that I have the majority of his designs are decent, but there are a lot that would be hard to work with.
I have sadly professional commitments which stand in the way of me working on LBSC's designs at the moment, plus a desire to work on these SAR locomotives.

I think for the time being, the best thing that could be done is at least ensure that his work as it was written is preserved, and if someone wants to make something of it then that could be done.

Otherwise, trying to draft even all of his lost designs and variants is a much more daunting task than I imagined.

-Dean
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2 June 2018 at 05:06 #1723
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
I assure you all, I have not died.
2 June 2018 at 06:35 #356170
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
Amazing work I wish I had as much skill as you have of sorting out all these designs.

David George
2 June 2018 at 08:52 #356179
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
Posted by David George 1 on 02/06/2018 06:35:15:

Amazing work I wish I had as much skill as you have of sorting out all these designs.

David George

Thank you sir!

Frankly, its more or less akin to machining it virtually in a way, start off with the rough shape and bring it to size.

The only catch is that these designs are often not that straight forward, but I would prefer to find out about the mistakes in CAD than I would machining it.
2 June 2018 at 09:36 #356181
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
Probably a good move to do something different for a while, I marvel at your work rate and enthusiasm for a big task and you have achieved a huge amount. When something becomes a burden rather than a pleasure it is good to put it on the back burner, I find the enthusiasm will build again and pick it up and somehow your mind has solved the problems while you were away.

Mike
2 June 2018 at 20:18 #356245
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
The catch with the work that I was doing with LBSC really started to make itself apparent when I started looking into the smaller scales stuff (2.5" gauge and below) which is when I started to consider something:

"Will people really ACTUALLY enjoy this work, build it, etc.?"

That, I won't lie, is what completely threw me.
I could spend years drafting all of these designs, for what? I have a feeling that the designs that are already popular, that people want to build do exist, and that unlike the Martin Evans design that I am working on, the magazine articles are complete. If at the minimum I can preserve copies of those, I think that I would be satisfied with a lot of the designs.

The one that upset me the most was Kingette. I really hoped that it would have been more detailed (in terms of the writing), alas, it was not. I may be able to make the design look acceptable, however, I don't think that I would be content with it though.

Another issue arose, which I find just as troubling: there are a lot of locomotives which would need to be revisited in CAD to correct errors that have been found, from what I understand that includes Rodean.

Suffice to say, this bear went from being a Teddy, to a cub, to a Sun Bear to a really annoyed Kodiak.

As far as South African Railways locomotives are concerned, I think that African locomotives in general are a wonderful prototype to model (I say this with a bias of course) thanks to the large size and power that they have. The Natal has a lot of power, in fact, I would say that it is on par with some smaller 7.5" gauge locomotives I have seen in the US. Between the power, the size, I believe that the fusion of American and British design elements on them truly leads to some handsome locomotives.

The 15F that I plan on developing will be called "Transvaal" and the 15CA "Vrystaat" after the pre-1994 names of provinces, like ~~Errors~~ Evans did with Natal.
2 June 2018 at 21:00 #356250
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
This is resident at Quainton Road about 20 miles from me, it stuck in my mind and I am only on the interested level of locomotive enthusiast.

**LINK**

http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/25nc.htm

Mike
2 June 2018 at 21:51 #356255
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
Curiously the 25 series is one of the most modern, fascinating locomotives I have ever seen.
The Red Devil was built from one, they came in both condensing and non-condensing versions- hence the NC.

I would very much like to design one of them in 3.5" gauge, perhaps even in 7.5" gauge (keep in mind I live in Arizona, USA) with a functional condensing system, fan and stoker. That would be the opus for me I'm sure.
3 June 2018 at 13:03 #356295
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Hi Dias,

I think the reasons many LBSC designs are ignored are:
- They are often incomplete.
- Information is not readily available on the web.
- People want the effort put into an engine to result in success, so they tend to follow established designs.
- Some gauges have a limited following.
Your work is raising the profile of some of these forgotten designs and filling in the gaps. Also by visul,aising them , that will give people a better idea of what they will get at the end.

If your results are made available on the web, ultimately many of them will be more likely to be built, even if it take many years.

Neil
3 June 2018 at 19:36 #356339
Dean da Silva
Participant
@deandasilva59410
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/06/2018 13:03:04:

Hi Dias,

I think the reasons many LBSC designs are ignored are:
- They are often incomplete.
- Information is not readily available on the web.
- People want the effort put into an engine to result in success, so they tend to follow established designs.
- Some gauges have a limited following.
Your work is raising the profile of some of these forgotten designs and filling in the gaps. Also by visul,aising them , that will give people a better idea of what they will get at the end.

If your results are made available on the web, ultimately many of them will be more likely to be built, even if it take many years.

Neil
I see what you did there!
I know, I have dragged my feet on a webpage.
30 August 2018 at 08:56 #369656
Jon palt
Participant
@jonpalt18216
Hi. I have enjoyed reading through all the posts in this thread, and have been very impressed by Dean's work. I have been wondering if some of the difficulties encountered in making all the parts fit in the CAD environment revolves around the difference between being able to draw in 2D and 3D making all joints, mating surfaces and measurements fit exactly and the way in which some of LBSC's designs ended up being made with parts made "to fit" or "to measure" after the major assemblies had been manufactured from the "Words and Music". Adding in the odd dimensional error will only make things more interesting…

Regards,

Jonathan
30 August 2018 at 10:58 #369666
Andrew Tinsley
Participant
@andrewtinsley63637
Hello Dean,

When you first started posting, I really wasn't much interested in your work. As time progressed I became more and more enthusiastic about your effort and dedication to Curly's designs. Now, to say that I am impressed, is an understatement.

I am sure that many people feel the same and I do hope that a webpage could be the ultimate goal. I did not realise how extensive LBSC's work was and I congratulate you on the results so far.

Andrew.
31 August 2018 at 18:32 #369840
Chris_C
Participant
@chris_c
Posted by Jon palt on 30/08/2018 08:56:07:

….

I have been wondering if some of the difficulties encountered in making all the parts fit in the CAD environment revolves around the difference between being able to draw in 2D and 3D making all joints, mating surfaces and measurements fit exactly and the way in which some of LBSC's designs ended up being made with parts made "to fit" or "to measure" after the major assemblies had been manufactured from the "Words and Music"…

Whilst I'm not Dean and don't want to distract from his thread, yes, I think there is an awful lot of both of those problems. I've been drawing a 14xx in CAD, nominally starting with Martin Evans Dart, then modifying to John Smiths additions from ME a few years ago, along with a few changes I've added to ease of manufacture with the tools I have available. It's fair to say there is well over 1000 hours invested in the model now (I'm aware quite how much swarf could have been made in that time, but it's how my mind works)

Getting each set of holes matched for fastners to completely align is (nominally) critical in the 3D model. You can give tolerances, but it massively affects CPU time when you try to adjust any component (and I've aimed for user controls to adjust wheel rotation, brake, reverser, drain cocks, etc so that I can spot linkages fouling, Dart has a brake linkage crashing into the motion when in reverse problem as drawn). Most of these if you find a missing one when you are in the workshop, you'd just spot through. Angles/dimensions aren't always present on all faces as it's expected that the castings will be available so fully dimensioned drawings aren't given, just those of the important faces for the builder to machine. Bends in linkages that you would just tweak to fit in the workshop suddenly need a secondary geometric sketch to calculate the angles (although, I imagine I would do that to know the length of material to make them from in the first place, given most again list hole centre distances rather than "length of pre bent part&quot.

I've mentioned to Dean previously that I have no idea how he gets through the 3D modelling at the rate he does, but it is great to watch! I agree, a website in some form would be ideal.
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