Workshop insurance and compresses gasses

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

My detached garage houses all my machines, locos etc, none of which are separately insured so i wouldnt expect to be able to claim if they went missing. But where do I stand regarding bottle gas – Ive got full size Argon – not likely to burn but can explode, argoshield, oxygen and acetylene. Am i obliged to tell insurers or local fire brigade?

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No idea but I have exactly the same, I am insured, the insurance knows as it was a hard point getting insured when they know you do welding.

Fire brigade doesn't know and as far as I'm aware there is no legistation to tell them.

However one point I'd like to make is if the place catches fire and there are gas bottles in the FB will put an exclusion zome around the place and basically let it burn out, H&S crap and all that.

Two years ago they closed the M6 for 24 hours because a small van caught fire with an acetylene bottle in it.

But if you store the bottles on trollies close to an access dorr and get them outside in the event of a fire then th FB will do their best to contain the fire.

So having them chained to nice H&S wall mounted stands right down inside the shop works against you.

John S.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi fizzy,

When I had a garage workshop fire a couple of years ago the firefighters were only worried if there was any acetylene in the garage. I had Propane, Butane and Argoshield but they were not bothered about those. Acetylene bottles can be very nasty in a fire. We used oxy acetylene gas welding at most of the schools I taught in and we had to keep the bottles in a ventilated lean to with the gas piped in, and of course flashback arresters.

I was fully insured under my household policy and the Insurance company had no problem with my bottles. However my insurance policy for contents actually covered all losses in detached outbuildings as well as the main house up to the limit of the opverall cover, in my case that is £75,000, while many only offer limited cover for out building contents – £2000 or £5000 are common limits. it is well worth the extra few pounds a year to get that extra cover, you should also make sure that the overall contents cover is high enough.

Best regards

Terry

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I don't know about insurers will or will not insure ect.

In the event of a fire, any gas cylinders can explode and any unknown gas cylinders should be treated as acetylene cylinders. Acetylene has flammable limits between of 2 to 82 percent of air.

"Acetylene gas under pressure becomes unstable and is regarded as an explosive. Cylinders must never be subject to intense heat or severe physical impact as the rise in temperature and pressure may cause the Acetylene to thermally decompose."

"Despite the decomposition of the gas and the increase in temperature and pressure the cylinder may seem to be in a normal condition. If the cylinder it is moved it may detonate and anyone nearby may be fatally wounded by the blast." (Quotes taken from my notes in my Oxyfuel Gases Safety Awareness course)

There is a 200 meter exclusion zone around any Acetylene gas cylinder for 24 hours in a fire for the very reason of the potential thermal decomposition and detonation of these cylinders.

As far as I'm aware, the fire brigade will not enter a burning building with gas cylinders inside if they cannot be told exactly where the cylinders are located, unless there are persons inside. But other factors will also stop them going in.

Regards Nick.

P.S. Terry's idea about having acetylene (and any other flammable gases) in a lean-to or any other out side ventelated cover and the gas piped into the workshop, is the best and safest way of using these cylinders

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 10/11/2012 13:40:43

[mark mcParticipant @markmc72333]

Not sure about where you are but here in ni we have to tell the fire brigade if you have acetylene gas in your workshop and tell the insurance tho there not bothered about other gases. Where not even supposed to keep acetylene in the shop if there is no one in there. That's the way it is at in my work too, Acetylene must be left outside at night/home time.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Anything bigger than a blowtorch canister or a soda stream CO2 bottle goes in the toolshed with teh mower and bikes, not in the workshop.

Neil

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

On converting my attached garage to a workshop I informed my house insurance co of the changes, they then conferred with their underwriters as to the requirements needed..it boiled down to this.. as long as no cylinders were stored inside the garage /workshop, &, there was no prospect of my carrying out any form of heat application i.e flame cutting, welding, building of live steam models ..apart from static display models, then I was covered under my normal contents insurance with the appropriate amendment to my policy..but caveat emptor as the saying goes ..check with your insurance co to clarify..so far, as mentioned, &, as I can ascertain.. don't store any flammable gas cylinders inside any attached building! so in future I will be storing any propane / plumbers type cylinder torch/ equipment outside in the shed. Hope this helps..

George

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

I can only repeat that my insurance company paid up after my fire without question despite butane, arogoshield bottles and mig welding equipment. The question of acetylene was only raised by the firefighters, not the insurance company and I have no shed. If the insurance company has different rules, try different companies.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 12/11/2012 06:08:50

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