Super 7 ‘Essentials’ for beginner?

[Steve BowerParticipant @stevebower42241]

Hi

Can anyone chip in with what might be considered 'essential' mods for a Super 7 (early 60's) with gearbox?

Also what would be a sound basic library? I assume that GH Thomas & Harold Hall books would be in there, but which best to start?

Thanks

[Steve BowerParticipant @stevebower42241]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I don't think there are any mods to a S7 that are "essential"! My mid-00s S7 has been CNC converted but that is hardly essential! There are some nice to have accessories, of which in my view include a 4-jaw, a faceplate if you really think you'll use it, a Dickson QCTP, and collet chuck. It may have a screwcutting indicator, if not a nice-to-have if you are likely to be doing a lot of screwcutting but it is possible without. One thing to consider is replacing the headstock drive belt with a link belt of the correct size, and also the countershaft drive belt if it is a vee-type – these give smoother running.

As for books I started with The Amateur's Lathe by Sparey but I think that's out of print. G H Thomas is useful, also Model Engineer's Workshop Manual (is that Tubal Cain?). TBH I haven't looked at a book apart from for things like tapping sizes etc for years. Books that I have found inspirational are Guy Lautard's Machinist's Bedside Readers.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I am not sure the machine needs mods but there are lots of accessories. The graduated carriage handwheel and screw cutting clutch from Graham Meek are nice if you have the need. JA Radford has designs for some nice parts. A variable speed drive inverter is always thought very useful. A rear Toolpost has lots of fans for parting off. The rack operated tailstock can be useful. A six position carriage stop can be useful if making a run of the same part. A DRO is favoured by some. An ER collet chuck is handy. There is a Poly V belt conversion available to build. Hemingway kits have a range of Myford specific items to build.

The Amateurs Lathe by Sparey is one of my favourite books but there are plenty to choose from.

Mike

[Adrian 2Participant @adrian2]

Sparey's book is a must . He explains everything in layman's terms and is aimed at the absolute beginner . He assumes no prior knowledge on the part of the reader.

With this  book alone you can get started and be successful.

 

Adrian.

Edited By Adrian 2 on 12/12/2017 15:44:09

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If you are going to use it just as a lathe no modifications beyond a better tool holding system are needed. Put your effort into servicing, set-up and proper alignment. Once you start using it you will have a better idea of what extra you need for your purposes.

Getting ahead of yourself by immediately purchasing what you might need ('cos there is a cheap bargain this week) or making what "everyone" says you need is the quick way to a well filled white elephant enclosure. In retrospect I spent more money buying "looks good, might need it and its real cheap for the proper thing" kit that sits on the shelf than I'd have spent paying full retail for what I actually use out of that bargain stash. That said buying low when the opportunity arose worked well for many other things that I was pretty sure I'd need.

QC tool post systems are nice, but end up spendy. For now I'd just make up some simple two slot blocks by screwing and gluing together stock plate and bar sections. Two tools that can be swung into place will do a goodly proportion of the jobs on a single workpiece. Undoing the nut and swopping blocks isn't that slow really. Makes having all your tools set-up ready to go affordable. Need maybe 8 to 10 tools mounted for easy working really.

Decent tool sharpening facilities are essential so a decent grinder with a proper cup wheel and adjustable rest at one end come high on the must get list. Not forgetting templates so you can grind the tools to the same angle every time. Howard Halls rest system is as good as any.

Clive.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I wonder as Steve is a beginner he means essential checks & adjustments rather than essential mods. In good condition a Super 7 wouldn't need anything doing, but this one is about 60 years old and may have had adventures.

What would the team recommend be done to check out a recent purchase Super 7 to make sure nothing's broken, worn, missing or out of adjustment?

Dave

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Again to echo the rest no essential mods except maybe a topslide locking lever as described by George Thomas.

Desireable accesories, assuming you have a faceplate a decent 3 jaw and a 4 jaw independent would in my opinion be QC toolpost, ER collet chuck, backstop set for thin items and a dial thread indicator.

If you really want to get fancy, variable speed drive, versatile dividing head, headstock dividing head and overhead drive for a cross-slide mounted spindle, graduated Saddle handwheel and micrometer tailstock.

regards Martin

[IanTParticipant @iant]

As described above….

But do get an ER chuck mounted on a back-plate (not a MT2 version) that will allow material to pass through the headstock.

A plain 3/8th plate that mounts/bolts directly onto the cross-slide, that will allow you to mount some useful items that will not otherwise fit the Myford slots easily (such as Chinese vertical slides & vices etc – which are much cheaper than their "Myford" branded equivalents) It will also help to avoid distortion of the cross-slide when tightening accessories up. Just drill & tap holes in it to suit any accessories (or work).

A simple latch to lock the headstock (via the 60 tooth back-gear) for most of your simple dividing needs – to go with a power tool (or flexible shaft) to give drilling from the cross or top-slide.

A personal choice but a solid tool block to hold tools directly on the cross-slide, which will mean you cannot make tapered cuts but which will make many turning/parting operations much more 'solid' in use.

A saddle lock is almost essential in my view – so replace the simple bolt provided with a lever but make sure it doesn't stick up too much and foul other things (like my Hemmingway one sometimes seems to)…

This lot will keep you busy for a while – and by then you will begin to have a pretty good idea of what works (and what doesn't) in respect to the particular (and always very personal) use you put your lathe to….

Good luck and enjoy the trip!

Regards,

IanT

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

No mods are essential. Assuming it's not a worn out machine, just check that the tailstock is properly lined up with the headstock (it's adjustable), the spindle bearings are adjusted correctly and all the gib strips are adjusted correctly and you are good to go. Also check that the tailstock and spindle tapers aren't graunched and if they are, gently clean them up with a morse taper reamer enough to remove any high spots. You'll be able to feel when this is achieved and you can check it by fitting something with a morse taper and seeing if it grips The other thing is clean and lubricate with fresh oil everything that should be. It's surprising how few people lube their lathe properly. While you're there, adjust the feedscrews and leadscrew for minimum backlash at the handle end. There are a number of modifications that can be made if you feel ambitious but for the time being, I'd suggest using it and get a feel for it. Assuming it's arrived with all the usual accessories, my first recommendation would be to get a quick change toolpost and some holders to make tool changes a dream rather than a chore. Not cheap but never regretted. After that, it's a question of how much you want to spend.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

It might be better to look at the work you intend to do with the lathe, before considering what to do to it, otherwise you could spend a lot of time and/or money on tooling or modifications that will not be used

One question that comes to mind is will you be milling on the lathe? My son purchased a collet chuck and vertical slide for his mini lathe. The vertical slide is still in its box unused, as he bought a milling machine soon after, whilst the collet chuck is used regularly.

Brian

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

For the 7 series 'Improvements and Accessories for your Lathe' by J A Radford is probaly the best read, GH Thomas and Martin Cleeve also documented many improvements and accessories.

Of course 'improvements' can be very subjective things and some can be filed under 'it made me feel better' rather than 'it transformed my lathe' although Radford claimed some of his changes were 'transformational' and GHT's dowelled gib strips are said to be very worthwhile.

Neil

[Steve BowerParticipant @stevebower42241]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 12/12/2017 16:09:38:

I wonder as Steve is a beginner he means essential checks & adjustments rather than essential mods. In good condition a Super 7 wouldn't need anything doing, but this one is about 60 years old and may have had adventures.

What would the team recommend be done to check out a recent purchase Super 7 to make sure nothing's broken, worn, missing or out of adjustment?

Dave

Thanks for that 'check' on my enthusiasm & the advise above about white-elephant purchases. You're absolutely right – the lathe has just landed in the garage, so a check-over and setup is the obvious place to start. Any tips, or a link to a previous post? Ta

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/12/2017 17:16:06:

GHT's dowelled gib strips are said to be very worthwhile.

Neil

No said about that Neil. Absolute fact. Carefully fitted dowelled gibs with ball ended adjustment screws and the thumbscrew lock to GHT specifications will indeed transform any small lathe with up to moderate wear. Vastly improved gib location lets you run things in tighter adjustment. Once you have shifted the age baked oil deposits that is! I may be into double figures on that particular modification by now. Both I and the folk I've done the job for have been very impressed with the results.

After doing so many I'm convinced that maybe half the dovetail slide "wear" on ageing small lathes of chequered history is actually uneven age baked oil deposits. Total PIA to shift. Often seems that its harder than the underlying cast iron.

Also worked well on a big Abwood milling vice too. That came to me with the worst possible excuse for a gib strip bodged in by a previous person. I'd complain about that if it weren't for the fact that said vice came to me for free as it was "completely useless".

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 12/12/2017 17:39:18

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A read of the manual and familiarisation with the lube points and recommended lubes is essential, one or two lube points are well hidden. The manual also covers installation and setup. Much has been written about setting up to turn parallel and time spent on your chosen method will be well spent. A good clean will take you all round the machine and any damage or wear may be discovered, it is probably worth a partial dismantling to clean and check under the saddle if you feel that you can reassemble and adjust correctly. The felt wipers need cleaning and maybe replacing depending on condition. Slide the tailstock off and clean, making sure nothing is embedded in the underside. Check the tailstock is aligned, it probably has been moved and may not be perfectly realigned. Going over these checks will give you confidence in the machine. Even if you discover wear, when you know it is there you can work round it.

Mike

As I posted above there is a big shopping list of nice to haves but none are essential, as long as you can hold the job and hold a tool you will be in business. All the toys just make things a bit easier and quicker but as a hobby we have the time to work at our own pace. If setting a tool each time you need to use it gets tedious then a quick change Toolpost may get on your like to have list. The hidden cost of a QCTP is that you will start to accumulate tool holders.

It is easy to get sidetracked making tools to make things rather than getting on with the main project. Although the diversions can be very satisfying it is sometimes worth buying the item if possible and affordable. I expect we all have  a selection of white elephants that seemed a good idea/ bargain at the time, they often retain their value though so can be sold on.

 

Edited By Mike Poole on 12/12/2017 18:07:50

[HillclimberParticipant @hillclimber]

Surprised nobody mentioned a factory Super 7 Manual, or Ian Bradley's Myford 7 Series Lathe Manual?

I'd add to that an oil gun, Nuto 32 oil to put in it, and some VG68 slideway oil. I'd also pack some scotchbrite pads and big roll of paper towels if your machine has been lying idle.

Dont forget a set of whitworth spanners and imperial allen keys. Then set about shoving clean oil everywhere, and wiping the thing down.

Finally, start using it, playing with adjustments, and enjoying it.

You can then finally reflect on what kind of work you have to do. This is pretty much the path I have followed and am now adding the tooling I need to get my jobs done – several of which, include clamping systems and a drawbar, I have made myself on the lathe.

Cheers, Colin

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I'd be a bit wary of the dust from Scotchbrite pads getting into any bearing interfaces.

Bill

[Steve BowerParticipant @stevebower42241]

Really useful, thanks all.

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Posted by Clive Foster on 12/12/2017 17:38:43:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/12/2017 17:16:06:

GHT's dowelled gib strips are said to be very worthwhile.

Neil

No said about that Neil. Absolute fact.

That's why they were standard on 4½" Boxford cross and top slides. A groove across the gib strip and a peg (dowel) to engage in it and prevent lateral movement.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

 

By far the most useful accessory I have for my S7 is a quick change tool post with lots of holders. I have quite a few and it means that whatever tool is required it is instantly available and correctly set to height.

Norman

Edited By NJH on 12/12/2017 23:02:17

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for Sparey's "The Amateur's Lathe"and Tubal Cain's "Model Engineer's Handbook" (a mine of information relating to Model Engineering). Further reading could include two books by Ian Bradley, "The Amateur's Workshop" and the "Myford Series 7 Manual" (Covers ML7, ML7R and Super 7)

Another essential, based on my experience is a Reilang Oil Gun, really good and works in almost any position.

DON't get the Myford Oil Gun. Mine put oil everywhere except through the oil nipples on the machine.

I found the four way toolpost a benefit, (much better than the standard fitment); as were a long Cross Slide, and resettable Micrometer Dials.

A Rear Toolpost is a real benefit for Parting Off (I made mine!)

If you ever progress to Milling on the lathe; GENTLY does it. The vertical slides will flex, (may even twist) if you try to take deep cuts. The Rodney Milling Attachment is good, but deep cuts will show the lack of rigidity of the combination as a Milling Machine.

Don't be put off by these comments, Lots of good (fantastic) work has been done on Myford machines, but use within their limits.

You should have years of enjoyment ahead of you!

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/12/2017 01:38:33

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

As well as LH Sparey's "The Amateur's Lathe" it's worth getting his little book "A Man and His Lathe" as well.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 13/12/2017 01:34:01:

DON't get the Myford Oil Gun. Mine put oil everywhere except through the oil nipples on the machine.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/12/2017 01:38:33

The old version did, the new one doesn't and you are going to need an oil gun.

regards Martin

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Hopper on 13/12/2017 09:10:34:

As well as LH Sparey's "The Amateur's Lathe" it's worth getting his little book "A Man and His Lathe" as well.

Plus one for that and it reminds me that it would be worth checking that any fitted chuck, etc is not stuck.

[HillclimberParticipant @hillclimber]

Yup, add a stub piece of hex bar of about 3/4" to your shopping list – clamp it in your chuck and it becomes the easiest way to get the thing on and off.

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