Powerfeeders

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Good afternoon all,

Just an update on my recent powerfeed problem.

I went for a new unit which arrived very quickly, no problem !

The real problem only showed up when I tried to fit it.

I was not aware that they come in two types, vertical and horizontal, needless to say, I ended up with the  vertical one and I see no way that it can be fitted to my Lux mill.

The entire set up is different, even the mounting plate is totally different, shaft size is different too. I assumed that these units were suitable for most machines, maybe not.

Not moaning about it, just mention it as a warning to others

As they say, check twice, buy once !

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Sorry Larry, but were the units in question not illustrated on the sellers website for you to pick from?

Tony

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I dont recall any mention of different types, in fact I never knew there were two types.

As a matter of interest, how are those vertical types fitted ?

Another thing which I noticed was that one of the gearwheels is plastic, not too impressed with that !

What type of machines do these things fit/suit ??

All part of the “Learning Curve ”

Such a pity since it looked so well !

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I had to google Lux mills as the name was missing from the lathes UK website. I got a Chester Lux model and wonder if it is the same as yours? The only difficulty with one of the vertical power feeds on the X axis might be the suds tray, hard to judge the clearance or maybe the extreme travel of the bed to the left. Otherwise you would have to make adaptors using a lathe and the mill, these things don’t fit themselves.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Assuming we are talking about the Align type electric power feeds, the vertical models have a bevel gear final drive and are intended for full size floor standing milling machines. The horizontal models have an in line final drive, and fit small bench mounted mills which have limited clearance below the table.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Good morning Old Mart,

My Lux mill came from Chester, seems to be a fairly common bench type machine, under many names.

However the “problem” may lie in the name Bench Type.  See next post from  Malcolm.

There is no way the model I have could ever be fitted to my machine, it,s a different set up altogether. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the unit, it is simply the wrong type for the job.

I have always found the horizontal type easy enough to fit, but then that was the only type I ever came across. I am now “enlightened”, sadly at a cost, but nothing comes for free.

Just something to watch out for next time around ???

In the meantime I will add it to my store of things which “Might come in useful sometime ”

Thanks to everyone for explaining my error.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Is there any chance of it working on the Y axis? The horizontal type will add quite a bit to the left end of the bed, but have about 3 times the torque of the vertical models.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Good morning Old Mart,

I dont know about that, never tried it, but I doubt I would have much use for it there.

What surprised me was this ;  There must be many more bench mills than floor standing types in small workshops, yet most of the powerfeeds available seem to be for the floor models. I would have expected it to be the other way around. Horizontal models are few and far between compared to the vertical type, also much more expensive ! Strange.

As you say they DO project quite a bit, but that cannot be helped, just need to provide for it.

Still thinking about replacing it or not ,becoming a bit pricey at this stage !

As they say, all part of the game !

Thanks to everyone

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Larry

The vertical type were initially developed for the ubiquitous “Bridgeport style” turret mills as an off the shelf solution for the numerous firms building knock-off versions all round the world. Much easier than building a proper copy of the later, very effective  6F and 8F units on the real thing. They then spread into retro-fit and repair markets when the assured series production for Far Eastern markets kept the price down.

With the main units available in quantity at reasonable prices sorting kits for the small, cottage market, of ME size machines was pretty easy. Feed-screw hand-wheel bracket design is very similar whatever the machine.

The horizontal type came along later when Far Eastern makers decided that bench mills will power feed should be made at a viable cost for the ME type market. I’d been seeing vertical types for many years before encountering the horizontal ones.

I presume there is no possibility of swopping parts from the new vertical one into you old one to make auctioning hybrid?

Clive

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

It is obvious that the body of the horizontal type is a fairly crudely modified vertical part, so you could no doubt carry out the same modification. But then you would need the adapter plate that connects it to the table, though I discarded that and made my own design of mounting. Then the main problem would be to find a pair of straight cut gears that couple to the lead screw, though perhaps a small chain drive could fit?

None of this should be beyond the average machinist, but it would be quite a lot of work.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Incidentally, from my notes the lead screw coupling gears give a 1:2.8 reduction (20/56 T) and the motor to clutch shaft reduction is 5:107 T. The 107 tooth plastic gear is a good safety feature, and is readily available from a number of vendors. However, there may be more than one type – in my unit it incorporates a conical clutch intended to slip if overloaded.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Hi Clive,

Some very good information there, I never knew the horizontal type was a late comer, but then,  so was I !  I dont think I would dare changing bits around, my fuse is too short for things like that !

Malcom, As you say there would be quite a lot of work involved trying to modify  to suit, but still worth thinking about

It was such a silly mistake to make, but then we all make silly blunders.

Let he who is without sin cast the first spanner !

Back to the drawing board .

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Oh dear. I feel a bit guilty now as it was me who suggested the replacement. I too had no idea that there were different types.

When I purchased one for my VMC I just needed to bore out the bronze gear a little. Other than that it was pretty much a straight fit.

I have one on both the x axis and the z (knee) axis.

Can you not return it for a refund?

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Hi Hollowpoint,

No need to feel guilty, just seems we were both in the dark regarding the two types. As regards returning it, there is nothing actually wrong with it, so they would have no reason to accept it or offer a refund. Along with that the cost of postage would most likely be more than the thing is worth! Postal charges are simply crazy.

For the moment, I will continue to lick my wounds before making my next leap into the unknown. They say that the man who never makes a mistake never makes anything, so I should be well qualified !

I have no doubt there is somebody around who knows and understands these things, circuit boards, gizmos, thingys ect, so I will start asking around.  My “expertise” is limited to benchwork and a 1lb hammer, not the ideal equipment for this job.

Still, many thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

Thank you all and happy metal bashing .

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Why not put the incorrect unit up for sale in the small ads on here – it should fit the popular small Warco/Chester knee mills – and buy the correct version for your machine ?

May take a small hit price-wise, but you won’t have something you can’t use cluttering up a shelf & you get the advantages of  power feed that you want.

Used this type on a Bridgeport clone (the type you bought) and an RF30 round column mill (the type you wanted) & both worked well, if a bit noisily. Fitted the unit (bought from Chester ) to the auction purchase Bridgeport clone at ex-work to replace a damaged unit & had to remove / remount the Align branded unit from the RF30 to remove the table (loose leadscrew nut) & both were straightforward to fit and adjust.

Nigel B.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I did think of that, but there is little market in this country for that and the cost of postage to anywhere overseas would be out of the question for any buyer.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I sold one very quickly some years ago, probably on homeworkshop but might have been ebay

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