New hobby lathe for retired engineer?

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Henry Brown on 05/05/2020 09:58:21:

Fred, as another retired engineer I'd respectfully suggest that the 98% ok, will drive you nuts! I bought a Myford S7 and thought it would be great for what I wanted but soon found it was too small, especially the swing and spindle bore, so had to upgrade. I like playing about with car and very occasionally bike stuff so have a good idea where you are coming from, save a few quid extra and go for what you want plus another 2%!

Yes, good avice and I am very mindful. Hence no decisions made on budget verus capability yet. Thank you very much for the input.

FB

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Fred,

I recently found out, from a friend, that he had bought a myford ml7 (with most of the extras) in good (maybe excellent) condition not so many years ago for just £80. He uses it about twice a year for making old car components. He would never have spent out a grand for a lathe, but has a perfectly adequate piece of machinery for his very occasional needs.

Personally, of course, I much prefer my lathe over his, but I use mine for larger items and far more often than he does. Horses for courses, I suppose. They still both cut metal in exactly the same way as modern chinese hobby lathes. But your choice. Good luck in finding a suitable machine.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/05/2020 10:13:48:

Fred,

I recently found out, from a friend, that he had bought a myford ml7 (with most of the extras) in good (maybe excellent) condition not so many years ago for just £80. He uses it about twice a year for making old car components. He would never have spent out a grand for a lathe, but has a perfectly adequate piece of machinery for his very occasional needs.

Personally, of course, I much prefer my lathe over his, but I use mine for larger items and far more often than he does. Horses for courses, I suppose. They still both cut metal in exactly the same way as modern chinese hobby lathes. But your choice. Good luck in finding a suitable machine.

That's astonishing, I'd struggle to pass up on that too. But I feel that's a real outlier? However in the short term I shall keep my eyes and my mind open. Thanks.

FB

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

If you think you are going to get reliability from a Chinese lathe you are sadly mistaken. Unevenly ground beds, faulty electrics, misaligned parts, badly made slides, play, wobble, crappy plastic gears etc etc are common.

Your comparison of old lathes to classic cars is completely wrong. I see lots if people make the same comparison regularly. But you see lathes haven't really changed much in the last 50 years! they just got cheaper. And that reflects in build quality.

A better comparison might be a chieftain tank and a fiat punto. One is built like a brick sh*thouse and designed for heavy use the other is a punto.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 05/05/2020 10:44:42:

If you think you are going to get reliability from a Chinese lathe you are sadly mistaken. Unevenly ground beds, faulty electrics, misaligned parts, badly made slides, play, wobble, crappy plastic gears etc etc are common.

Your comparison of old lathes to classic cars is completely wrong. I see lots if people make the same comparison regularly. But you see lathes haven't really changed much in the last 50 years! they just got cheaper. And that reflects in build quality.

A better comparison might be a chieftain tank and a fiat punto. One is built like a brick sh*thouse and designed for heavy use the other is a punto.

In a nutshell, I don't expect much at all. A Punto will get me from A to B just fine and dandy. I really didn't want a thread about new v old stuff, but I guess it's kind of inevitable really. We used to argue the exact same thing in the 1970's about Japanese motorbikes. Lo and behold, there's still thousands of them around fifty years later. Contrary to what the general opinion was at the time. Thanks for the interest and input. It's very welcome.

FB

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 05/05/2020 09:47:02:

The requirements versus budget is utterly unrealistic. The only way to come close would be an ex-industrial machine, but that has been discounted. By greatly reducing the requirements the budget could be met, but no way are 98% of the requirements going to be met within budget, especially spindle bore.

Andrew

Concur.

The OP is searching for a machine tool unicorn, the 30mm spindle bore, Chinese, newish, less than 1k does not exist.

However, a decent Roundhead Student for that money still crops up now and again, but the OP has categorically stated he does not wish to go down that path.

Unfortunately.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 05/05/2020 10:59:29:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 05/05/2020 09:47:02:

The requirements versus budget is utterly unrealistic. The only way to come close would be an ex-industrial machine, but that has been discounted. By greatly reducing the requirements the budget could be met, but no way are 98% of the requirements going to be met within budget, especially spindle bore.

Andrew

Concur.

The OP is searching for a machine tool unicorn, the 30mm spindle bore, Chinese, newish, less than 1k does not exist.

However, a decent Roundhead Student for that money still crops up now and again, but the OP has categorically stated he does not wish to go down that path.

Unfortunately.

Thanks, but I already knew that before coming here. That's why I came to seek advice. All input is gratefully received and I have yet to decide what to do. Not buying a lathe at all is still an option.

FB

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 10:49:26:

In a nutshell, I don't expect much at all.

FB

Only a machine tool fitter 'without ego' could make that comment. I have been on this forum from the day it was created, and this is the first time I have read such a comment.

Ketan at ARC.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 11:11:58:

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 10:49:26:

In a nutshell, I don't expect much at all.

FB

Only a machine tool fitter 'without ego' could make that comment. I have been on this forum from the day it was created, and this is the first time I have read such a comment.

Ketan at ARC.

LOL! Happy to oblige. As an engineer in industry, if you have low excpectations you are seldom disapointed.

FB

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 10:49:26:

In a nutshell, I don't expect much at all.

FB

Well in that case, the Clarke CL430 is right up your street, it can be had in budget if picked up on one of machinemarts many "vat free" promotions and comes the closest to your requirements, bore is 26mm and swing 305mm.

I would only recommend one to a person I was intending to put off lathework for life though.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Cabinet Enforcer on 05/05/2020 11:37:53:

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 10:49:26:

In a nutshell, I don't expect much at all.

FB

Well in that case, the Clarke CL430 is right up your street, it can be had in budget if picked up on one of machinemarts many "vat free" promotions and comes the closest to your requirements, bore is 26mm and swing 305mm.

I would only recommend one to a person I was intending to put off lathework for life though.

Oooh, I missed that one. I had dismissed the Clarke range as just a bit too small. But that is worth a look. I'll go and look right now. Thank you.

FB

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by AdrianR on 05/05/2020 09:14:17:

A bit over your budget, but there is an ex-demo Chester DB10 that may be big enough for you **LINK**

Just looked at that. The basic specs are about the same as my old lathe. Clearly some changed mechanicals, but broadly similar. Closed gearbox, a few extra revs (although mine will turn at that speed), has a stand included and speed readout (my VFD readout depends on the mechanical variator position, but a ten quid chinese readout is easy to add).

The ‘cynic’ in me suspects that it is a returned machine, but that is me! (sorry, Chester) Still good value (maybe) if all is in spec but over twice the cost of mine.🙂 They (that and mine) both cut metal with the same cutters, btw.🙂

I note the lathe indicates a 1200W motor but the spec list is 750W. I hate little discrepancies like that and start to look for others…

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/05/2020 11:49:10:

Posted by AdrianR on 05/05/2020 09:14:17:

A bit over your budget, but there is an ex-demo Chester DB10 that may be big enough for you **LINK**

Just looked at that. The basic specs are about the same as my old lathe. Clearly some changed mechanicals, but broadly similar. Closed gearbox, a few extra revs (although mine will turn at that speed), has a stand included and speed readout (my VFD readout depends on the mechanical variator position, but a ten quid chinese readout is easy to add).

The ‘cynic’ in me suspects that it is a returned machine, but that is me! (sorry, Chester) Still good value (maybe) if all is in spec but over twice the cost of mine.🙂 They (that and mine) both cut metal with the same cutters, btw.🙂

I note the lathe indicates a 1200W motor but the spec list is 750W. I hate little discrepancies like that and start to look for others…

"Open box", "shop soiled", "ex-display" etc…. All considered. Right now I am typing this on an "open box" laptop that I couldn't afford in a sealed box! I am not expecting to be able to make nuclear reactors.

FB.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Not sure about all the concern about spindle bore diameter. I've used an old Drummond and a Myford for motorcycle restoration work for about 50 years without problem.

Using a fixed steady gets around all large diameter jobs on most most bikes, with the exception of tele fork legs, which are that bit too long for a standard bed.

 

 

 

Edited By Hopper on 05/05/2020 11:52:48

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Hopper on 05/05/2020 11:52:14:

Not sure about all the concern about spindle bore diameter. I've used an old Drummond and a Myford for motorcycle restoration work for about 50 years without problem.

Using a fixed steady gets around all large diameter jobs on most most bikes, with the exception of tele fork legs, which are that bit too long for a standard bed.

Edited By Hopper on 05/05/2020 11:52:48

Simply a part of my ideal spec to be able to easily centre drill 30mm bar. But I may hve found my 99% machine…………

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

My 99% spec machine? No 30mm bar feed in the headstock, but not bad in other ways. Could use a bt more than 550watts perhaps. But again I expect to turn mostly aluminium alloys and bit of steel now and then. I just need a VAT free offer. Can you register for those at all?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cl430-metal-lathe/

FB.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 11:57:14:

My 99% spec machine? No 30mm bar feed in the headstock, but not bad in other ways. Could use a bt more than 550watts perhaps. But again I expect to turn mostly aluminium alloys and bit of steel now and then. I just need a VAT free offer. Can you register for those at all?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cl430-metal-lathe/

FB.

Usually in the hobby environment… power stated by certain sellers such as Clarke – Machine Mart is 'input power'. Output power is likely to be lower, but possibly/probably compensated mechanically by the 6 Speed gearing?… I guess this may be okay for the aluminium alloys you are expecting to turn (at max speed), most of the time… and as you have a fitter background you can do some mechanical fettling to remind you of your old days

Ketan at ARC.

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Sign up to their email spam letter, and they will send you one periodically.

I really wouldn't recommend it though, I wasn't joking.

Most stores have one in (or the CL500, same lathe with added milling monstrosity) so at least you can see one in person and judge the (lack of) quality for yourself.

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 05/05/2020 12:25:15:

Posted by Fred Bloggs 3 on 05/05/2020 11:57:14:

My 99% spec machine? No 30mm bar feed in the headstock, but not bad in other ways. Could use a bt more than 550watts perhaps. But again I expect to turn mostly aluminium alloys and bit of steel now and then. I just need a VAT free offer. Can you register for those at all?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cl430-metal-lathe/

FB.

Usually in the hobby environment… power stated by certain sellers such as Clarke – Machine Mart is 'input power'. Output power is likely to be lower, but possibly/probably compensated mechanically by the 6 Speed gearing?… I guess this may be okay for the aluminium alloys you are expecting to turn (at max speed), most of the time… and as you have a fitter background you can do some mechanical fettling to remind you of your old days

Ketan at ARC.

The most arduous job I can think of as likely is boring a set of bike yokes (some folk will know what I mean, hence the required swing for faceplate mounting the yokes) up to 55mm (max) for a depth of around 25mm max material thickness. Typically 6082 or 6061 alloy. I recognise this is not what this machine is for but if I do that four times in two years I'd be going well on my projects. I see lots of light cuts in my future when boring a set of yokes!

Indeed, happy hours of hand fettling is definitely in my plan.

FB

[Fred Bloggs 3Participant @fredbloggs3]

Posted by Cabinet Enforcer on 05/05/2020 12:25:22:

Sign up to their email spam letter, and they will send you one periodically.

I really wouldn't recommend it though, I wasn't joking.

Most stores have one in (or the CL500, same lathe with added milling monstrosity) so at least you can see one in person and judge the (lack of) quality for yourself.

Thank you. If it can manage +/-0.05mm that's plenty good enough. When I need a bearing fit on a wheel spindle I fully expect to polish the final fit of bearing to spindle. Heresy, I know. But I am not proud and happy to do this.

FB

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The first lathe I bought came from machinemart. Never again. Ever. They are not lathe specialists or even anything else lathes. After-sales help and assistance – about zilch.

They do not and cannot have ‘VAT FREE’ sales at any time. Mr Taxman would be down on them like a tonne of bricks! They are simply having a “20% off” sale. VAT is still payable.

A decent second hand lathe would very likely be better than a new machinemart lathe, IMO. Very early on, I got fed up with either winding the lead screw or waiting for the power feed to drive it back. Insanely manumatic in this century.🙂 I expect, with my later experience I could improve it, but by then I had a £100 Little John which turned (out) so much better. I only changed that for the 5” because the 5” was a big improvement over the very adequate LJ.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I have many friends inc myself who work on classic bikes. My cousin has a motorcycle shop in Leeds. The Machine mart lathes yuk. They had a brand new one in the workshop for 2 weeks before selling it on. The rest of my many classic bike restorer mates have old machines like Harrison, Colchester & the likes. The reason of them having big old machines was the ability to swing a motorcycle wheel & large dia parts. 2 of my mates have a big old British lathe & a little Chinese mini lathe for small work.

None of this info will probably be much good to you. You seem to have your sights set in a direction.

The only reason I have posted is because of the association I have with classic bikes & the mistakes others have made buying the wrong kit to start with. Hope whatever you get , you may be happy with. Out of interest I only have a little Super 7, which I manage with. But anything large is a no no . But that does not matter as if I needed anything large machining I can always let a friend do the job.

Incidentally , my cousin with the bike shop served his apprenticeship at a Company call Richardsons engineering. As a turner. + 2 of the other guys were machine shop men.

Steve.

Steve.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/05/2020 11:49:10:

Posted by AdrianR on 05/05/2020 09:14:17:

I note the lathe indicates a 1200W motor but the spec list is 750W. I hate little discrepancies like that and start to look for others…

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

That is what I would expect. It just makes me wonder what else does not tally with the real truth – the user needs to know the proper details, not the exaggerated carp that gets highlighted. Much the same with compressor capacities – free air or the hyped-up ‘air displacement’ that actually means not a lot! Some band saw descriptions also appear to be misleading to potential purchasers.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Both may be true 1200w electrical, 5 A draw and 1hp out, the 750w being mechanical power

That is what I would expect. It just makes me wonder what else does not tally with the real truth – the user needs to know the proper details, not the exaggerated carp that gets highlighted. Much the same with compressor capacities – free air or the hyped-up ‘air displacement’ that actually means not a lot! Some band saw descriptions also appear to be misleading to potential purchasers.

[Author]

Posts