How Did Lawrence Sparey Make It Work?

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hopelessly out of date in places…well maybe. For me it’s the little nuggets of information that make it worthwhile.

One that springs to mind is using old bearing outer races as parallels on the faceplate or mill table.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 14/11/2017 15:10:03:
Hopelessly out of date in places…well maybe. For me it's the little nuggets of information that make it worthwhile.

One that springs to mind is using old bearing outer races as parallels on the faceplate or mill table.

Absolutely on the 'nugget' front, but the choosing a lathe section was out of date by the 1990s and is misleading in parts if good in others. Not a criticism of Sparey – he din't have a crystal ball.

Neil

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

True enough. On the choosing a lathe front though I wish I could get the Harrison L5 that’s in my copy for the money he is talking about then!

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I really think he'd actually laugh at all of this.

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Larry

That tailstock turret was another of his contributions to Model Mechanic, in April 1947.

I had one which I sold recently. Fitted permanently with two small chucks and a centre drill holder. Never used all 6 positions, just 4, but mostly the 3 mentioned for centre and 2 sizes of drill.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

I think he’d laugh too. And I think he’d be gratified to know his book was still useful and still discussed.

I’m sure he’d be the first to embrace modern methods and tooling.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

After the event I have found my copy I always preferred the Ian Bradley book The Amateur Workshop. Must be later as it features Myford rather than Drummond.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

That’s also a good book.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by Clive Foster on 14/11/2017 13:38:30:

I have two of those tailstock turrets. A Chinee one on an MT 2 bought maybe 25 – 30 years back, when I had Pools lathe, 'cos it ought to be useful. I don't recall ever using it in anger. The other is a proper industrial quality one on an MT 3 which suits my Smart & Brown 1024 and Pratt & Whitney Model B 12 x 30. Used that a few times on the 1024 . Effective but it does get in the way rather. The fixed vertical pipe for the coolant feed is nicely placed to argue with tooling in the turret! Would probably be much more convenient on the Pratt & Whitney as the longer bed gives more room to get the projecting tools out of the working area.

Most likely something you'd "use because you use it" if you see what I mean. To get best value it really needs to be the normal tailstock device with appropriate tooling for various jobs. Some fitted and the rest readily available. Maybe 2 drill chucks, a centre drill carrier (or small chuck), centre, sliding die / tap holders as a standard fit so generally only larger drilling jobs or tricky centre set-ups go direct in the tailstock. Tooling lengths need to be appropriate. Standard drills often being too long and centre drills best used in an extended carrier. Ideally the tailstock stays fixed during normal jobs. On smaller machines an unfilled station may well be essential if boring is to be done with the turret fitted.

Probably need around 20 multiple tailstock operation components to be worth setting up special for a job. Length issues with your normal tooling don't help.

Clive.

I built it about six years ago (still have it) and can't say I've used it once for all the reasons stated. Now I've got a dedicated capstan attachment, I'm unlikely to.

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

As Hopper said "Out of date,like a lot of us" !

As another said",Sparey would laugh at all this" I,m sure he would,while knowing that his book was still being read.

Of course he would be the first to use modern equipment,he was no Luddite,but we should remember that he wrote for a very different time. A time when even simple power tools were beond the reach of most of us,I remember it only too well. Looking at a 1/4" electric drill in Woolworths priced £3 ! my wages at the time £2 .1.6 ,my Mother with her hand out every Friday !! end of my 1/4" drill !. Back to the old hand drill ! Now you can go to Aldi and buy a 10mm drill with bells and whistles for buttons. Who could have afforded a 6" lathe in those days?,as for a mill !!!!! wishful thinking !

So,while I love the availability of stuff these days,I have great respect for his generation who had to make do with such simple equipment and yet produced such top class work. They may be "Old Hat",but do not deride them,they pointed us in the right direction,and sparked our interest,and for that alone,I am greatfull ,even though I may be"out of date".

PS,Another good book is "Using the small lathe" by L C Mason,well worth a read,simple,clear,no nonsense.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I like Westbury's Model Engineer's Lathe manual, also out of date, but actually a bit more detail on basic lathe operations than Sparey who covers more ground but sometimes in less depth.

A nice, machine independent, and more modern (but starting to show its age) book is Peter Wright's Model Engineering a Foundation Course.

Neil

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

To be absolutely clear I am neither disparaging nor laughing at Sparey and his ilk.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

For Mike on the Drummond group:
Bronze, mild steel, mild steel, felt. Any bearing that fits, adjusting dimensions if necessary. Use silver steel for the shaft.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Not really mentioned yet

IMO Spareys book came out just after the war with the express intention of promoting the ML7 (Rule Britannia etc)

We needed every dollar we could get and there was bread rationing in 1946

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Clive Foster on 13/11/2017 14:00:47:…

… Creating those matching tapers is going to be very challenging on any typical Home Shop lathe, especially a Drummond or similar pre war breed. Even with the 1024's superb taper turning attachment not a walk in the park. Doing it by offsetting the topside looks to be a nightmare. Especially given that a high finish is needed …

Pre-war Drummond M-types in good nick were actually a better-made lathe than the later Myfords, that's why they sold for more when new. No reason one could not make this project to very tight tolerances. I read in one of those old books at least one Drummond was used to make aircraft parts during the war to very tight tolerances in the 10ths of a thou.

Sparey and his cohort were a different type of craftsman from what we often see today, more used to doing everything with almost nothing. There was no getting on the internet to buy taper turning attachments etc when the need arose. Quite likely he would have used the standard dodge in those days of angling the topslide to 10 degrees as close as he could measure with his school protractor then leaving it in the same position while first the male taper was turned, then the female by inverting the tool and running it on the back side of the hole to be bored. Thus both might not be dead on 10 degrees, but both would be exactly the same angle and a good match. As for finish, hand feeding has become a lost art but was SOP in those days so excellent finishes were achieved by a practiced hand.

Same for the obtaining tight concentricities. He could have simply bored the tapered hole for one bearing and then in the same set-up, poked a boring bar right through the job and using a reversed toolbit, bored the seating diameter for the ball bearings all in the same set-up, cutting from left to right, ensuring perfect concentricity.

Why would he go to all that length? Perhaps just because he could!

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

It’s spreading…the Sparey grinding spindle debate has now started on the Drummond Yahoo Group!

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 16/11/2017 10:47:44:
It's spreading…the Sparey grinding spindle debate has now started on the Drummond Yahoo Group!

Quickly, everybody go to his defence before the booksales plummet!

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Somehow I think his sales are safe!

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