Drilling small holes in hardend steel

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Chris TickTock on 17/02/2020 16:50:16:

Thanks Michael but I did say I was trying to drill hardened steel. I ended up doing the job another way but the question is for future reference. Carbide drill bits are the answer but they are brittle. Your replies like most people on the forum, (though not all are unfortunately) are always polite and helpful, life hasn't obviously made you into a argumentative old git..well done.

Chris

.

Chris,

Yes, you said you were trying to drill hardened steel, and you gave an indication of drill size … BUT you didn't tell us [and still haven't told us] whether you are working on the lathe, or the mill, or what.

It's all relevant to people's understanding of the question.

I made my assumption, others have presumably made theirs …

MichaelG.

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

If you're going to drill it with a drill of some sorts, I recommend some RTD cutting compound. No idea how it works, but I've seen a chap fail to drill through some turbine blade-grade stainless, then reach into his bag, draw out a tube of RTD and apply it. Using the same drill bit, in the same hole, it went through like it was mild steel.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Spark Erosion Apparatus

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 17/02/2020 17:08:33:

Posted by Chris TickTock on 17/02/2020 16:50:16:

Thanks Michael but I did say I was trying to drill hardened steel. I ended up doing the job another way but the question is for future reference. Carbide drill bits are the answer but they are brittle. Your replies like most people on the forum, (though not all are unfortunately) are always polite and helpful, life hasn't obviously made you into a argumentative old git..well done.

Chris

.

Chris,

Yes, you said you were trying to drill hardened steel, and you gave an indication of drill size … BUT you didn't tell us [and still haven't told us] whether you are working on the lathe, or the mill, or what.

It's all relevant to people's understanding of the question.

I made my assumption, others have presumably made theirs …

MichaelG.

The question was open in terms of generally for clocks obviously as that's what I do so you can correctly assume small diameters up to a a few mm only. when i asked the question I did not know the answer so i could not say using a lathe or mill. Now i know the mill is best for such work. your assumption as to replacing a pivot was indeed correct however as I said the question originally asked was general but clock orientated.

Actually I am told by one clock repair guy I trust he has come across clocks have been found with soft pivots still working after a few hundred years. I ask questions always with an open mind and always parallel to doing my own research and with the help of my friends on the clock forum. Those (not you) who give unhelpful replies may miss the point that this forum is not only for exchange of knowledge but is a social portal to many that benefit from a kindly and helpful word. Unhelpful remarks will not get responded to.

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well now we know what it is I would think most of us would suggest the lathe rather than the mill to drill the hole axially in a round object. Had it been a flat clock spring then the mill would be the better option.

I also wonder why you could not drill it with a HSCO drill when we have seen from other posts that pivot steel can be worked with HSS, Maybe something else going on that is giving you problems

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 17/02/2020 18:29:54:

Well now we know what it is I would think most of us would suggest the lathe rather than the mill to drill the hole axially in a round object. Had it been a flat clock spring then the mill would be the better option.

I also wonder why you could not drill it with a HSCO drill when we have seen from other posts that pivot steel can be worked with HSS, Maybe something else going on that is giving you problems

All I can say is Timesavers in the States and Eternal tools sell drills called pivot drills / watch & clock drill bits. Both these are carbide. So it would not be that unusuasl to have my experience whereby even a cobalt drill made no real progress. Early steel apparently can be hard and erratic in composition.

So no Jason my experience is not unusual within horology and it was the case the metal was simply to hard to drill with the drill bits at hand.

Chris

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can also buy pivot drills made from carbon steel and HSS, not just carbide. The name generally describes a style with a short small end and then a larger diameter longer shank The cutting end can be flat or spiral flute like a modern twist drill. Example here

Strangely the only pivot drills I can see on Timesavers site are carbon steel and not carbide? Can't even see pivot drills on Eternal's site??

 

Edited By JasonB on 17/02/2020 20:58:40

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 17/02/2020 20:52:20:

You can also buy pivot drills made from carbon steel and HSS, not just carbide. The name generally describes a style with a short small end and then a larger diameter longer shank The cutting end can be flat or spiral flute like a modern twist drill. Example here

Strangely the only pivot drills I can see on Timesavers site are carbon steel and not carbide?

Edited By JasonB on 17/02/2020 20:56:13

Jason, Take another look at the Example here you posted when I look at it it clearly states for brass, mild steel and does not specify for hardened steel.

I have got the answer fto my satisfaction rom many sources now so with all due respect thank you and let's move on.

chris

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

It's nice to see that Mr. C.T-T finally also has learned how to quote correctly. For such an old git like me it is really cumbersome to find out who has written what. I sincerely hope that from now on, as you wrote, you will move on.

Kind regards,
Hans

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Clearly they do not need to supply drills for hardened steel – because it is soft when annealed! Simples. Nor is there a need to harden the piece after fitting the new pivot, either.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

For a guy knowing jack all this C T T person sure has attitude in quantity eh? I hope he moves on also.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For what it’s worth [ which in the context of this discussion might be ‘not much’ ] …

Here is a short video from Eternal Tools, which I have posted before: **LINK**

The brief clip starting at about 1m:45s nicely illustrates sharpening of a solid tungsten carbide spade drill.

< That’s All, Folks ! >

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 18/02/2020 00:58:32:

For a guy knowing jack all this C T T person sure has attitude in quantity eh? I hope he moves on also.

Not at all, everybody welcome! Chris made a few mistakes, that's all.

1. Insufficient description in his original question, leaving the team guessing. No doubt crystal clear to Chris what he meant, the rest of us were left joining a couple of dots.
2. Not understanding that broad questions attract broad answers, and perhaps sharp comment because no one likes having their time wasted.
3. Stubbornly not providing the detail when asked.
4. Not understanding that other people might be irritated by Chris too.
5. Rebutting advice using information from other web-sources without explaining the context. (Again probably clear to Chris but not the rest of us.)
6. Summarising conclusions with enough ambiguity to suggest about 20% of the problem hasn't been understood, and then shutting down the thread.
7. Arguing with Jason! Presumably Chris isn't aware of Jason's extraordinary track-record as practical man, author and first-rate explainer of workshop technique.
8. Having a higher opinion of his level of understanding than seems justified.

Chris isn't the only forum member to accidentally put his foot in it. We all get stuff wrong occasionally. Good grief, I'm the most lovable, intelligent, and sociable bloke on the planet, a saint in waiting, and yet not everyone likes me! Dunno why not, after all I'm handsomer, wittier and brainier than lesser men, and my politics are irrefutable…

Storm in a teacup!

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Dave, I've never made a mistake, since the last one.

Regards Nick.

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Highest quality work since Monday afternoon.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 18/02/2020 00:58:32:

For a guy knowing jack all this C T T person sure has attitude in quantity eh? I hope he moves on also.

Hi jeff, plenty of attitude is needed when dealing with online rude, bullying types that you very clearly represent.

Chris

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Versaboss on 17/02/2020 22:23:54:

It's nice to see that Mr. C.T-T finally also has learned how to quote correctly. For such an old git like me it is really cumbersome to find out who has written what. I sincerely hope that from now on, as you wrote, you will move on.

Kind regards,
Hans

‘Fraid not. Slow learner and short memory?

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Chris TickTock on 18/03/2020 09:12:09:

Hi jeff, plenty of attitude is needed when dealing with online rude, bullying types that you very clearly represent.

All you have to do is read posts in other threads by the people you are referring to and find they are not habitually as you describe.

Are you so sure that you, yourself, are not a large part of the problem, as several people tried to tell you?

[ If you respond (OK, but not required) PLEASE press the down-arrow a few times before starting your reply. Having to repeatedly do all the work to separate out your mixed-up quotes because you won't make a modicum of effort, probably doesn't set people up for good tempered responses. ]

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Oh my god. I thought I was the only one who could put a big stick in a wasps nest. PMSL.

Steve.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 18/03/2020 21:36:52:

Posted by Chris TickTock on 18/03/2020 09:12:09:

Hi jeff, plenty of attitude is needed when dealing with online rude, bullying types that you very clearly represent.

All you have to do is read posts in other threads by the people you are referring to and find they are not habitually as you describe.

Are you so sure that you, yourself, are not a large part of the problem, as several people tried to tell you?

[ If you respond (OK, but not required) PLEASE press the down-arrow a few times before starting your reply. Having to repeatedly do all the work to separate out your mixed-up quotes because you won't make a modicum of effort, probably doesn't set people up for good tempered responses. ]

You are looking to excuse rudeness and cyber bullying. I post questions according to the rules. Some answer in a rude fashion nothing short of being cyber bullies. No justification for rudeness whatsoever, why should you answer a beginners question rudely…why not ignore it if it irritates you?

Abusing the vulnerable (beginner) is cowardly and wrong…defending such bullies puts you in that camp. I know life long high quality engineers that have seen this all too often on line.

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Lets cool it down on both sides

If you don't like Chris's questions then simply don't answer or make comments and if Chris does not like the replies he can choose to use the ignor button.

He is not the only one who regularly quotes wrongly but the only one that people are picking up on.

Edited By JasonB on 19/03/2020 09:33:12

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 19/03/2020 09:31:25:

Lets cool it down on both sides

If you don't like Chris's questions then simply don't answer or make comments and if Chris does not like the replies he can choose to use the ignor button.

He is not the only one who regularly quotes wrongly but the only one that people are picking up on.

Edited By JasonB on 19/03/2020 09:33:12

Thank you Jason

That's all i ask for

Chris

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by JasonB on 19/03/2020 09:31:25:

Lets cool it down on both sides

If you don't like Chris's questions then simply don't answer or make comments and if Chris does not like the replies he can choose to use the ignor button.

He is not the only one who regularly quotes wrongly but the only one that people are picking up on.

Edited By JasonB on 19/03/2020 09:33:12

Now that a moderator has stated the facts perhaps we can continue to provide advice to beginners in a civil and helpful manner, and as said if you don't want to see what some people may post use the "ignore member" logo on the message bottom line.

Emgee

[Author]

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