CMD10/SeigX1 query

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

downfeed lock?

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

In the photo, I have marked two sets of adjustments and am curious to know if either of them is the proper lock for the downfeed.

No1 is a plate with slotted holes and an adjuster screw which would open/close the slit. I adjusted this once when the machine was quite new, to remove a slight bit of play in the quill. I have seen some modification sites where a lever has been added to the screw to use as a lock. This seems wrong to me.

No2 is a 10mm hex socket screw with a washer and locknut. When the lock nut is released it is possible to turn the screw almost 1/2 a turn in either direction before it stops. at this point the down feed is locked. The screw is not even shown in the manual that came from Clarke. An on-line manual shows it as an adjuster screw in the exploded diagram, but there is no mention of it in the user instructions. I would just like to know if it's OK to use this as a lock or would I likely to cause some damage. Hopefully someone will know.

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

Anthony,

I don't have the Clarke, but do have an Axminster Micromill, which is basically the same machine.

Mine doesn't have the plate with slotted holes, but does have the allen screw screw you have labelled "1" and it is this which is definitely the quill lock! I replaced the allen screw with a handle, on mine.

The other socket screw, with locknut, is set to minimise the play on the quill I believe – the screw bears in a slot which runs down the length of the quill, hence why it locks the quill when tightened. I'd use the other one as a lock, if I were you.

Hope this helps.

Regards Tom

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Number 2 is probably a peg in the slot to stop rotation of the spindle sleeve and everything attached to it. A small amount of peg rotation may act as an adjuster to minimise rotation but still allow movement up and down. Plate item 1 looks to be a spacer for mounting the chuck guard on judging by the photo on the Machinemart web site. Screw item 1 as Tom said.

Martin C

Ps on parts list item 2 is 144, 145, 146. Badly drawn assembly diagram. 

Edited By Martin Connelly on 30/04/2020 11:09:54

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

No 1 is used to mount the rather annoying guard on my SX-1 mill – there was a mod by Meek? to add a lever to No2 to easily lock the quill

[Iain.SParticipant @iain-s]

Anthony

I recently purchased one of these and it's still shiny & new but yours looks as if it's seen a bit of service. Working on the premis that both our machines are identical and there haven't been any upgrades/changes, number 1 is actually two seperate things.

As Frances notes, the flat plate held with 2 small setscrews, is a load spreading plate for the annoying plastic guard. It serves no other purpose other than to prevent the screws digging in to, and weakening, the plastic guard.

The other part (the recessed M8) is I believe, a very primitive method of taking up play in the main spindle sleeve. I had a go at nipping it up to try and get rid of a slight wobble in the spindle box but it very quickly locked up the whole head assy! As I said, very primitive.

I believe number 2 is supposed to be the quill lock but again, it's another very primitive effort that would benefit from a lever or handle so searching for the mod that Frances refers to might be worth a go. To date though, I haven't found a need for it.

Hope this helps a bit

Iain

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

So you want to lock the quill in place while milling? What is it that makes you think a small screw going in the side of the quill is a better way of clamping than the cap head allen screw which squeezes the entire casting around the quill in an even manner?

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

As the diagrams I have been able to find gave virtually no detail re.these screws and there is nothing in the user instructions, this was the reason for my original question. The number 1 screw is probably the better solution were it not for the fact that after using it you will have to re-adjust the play in the quill.

For many years I have got away with using the drill chuck for milling ( gasps of horror). Last year I purchased an ER25 chuck and collets and since using them (and taking bigger cuts) have found that the fine feed tends to creep off it's setting, even though it is a worm drive. Hence my need to lock the down feed.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have just looked at the exploded diagram in the manual: **LINK**

https://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/metalworking/CMD10_Milling-Drilling_Machine_Rev_3.pdf

.

Martin Connelly is quite correct … 144, 145, 146 are misplaced

That group should be shown where I have drawn the red line.

Note: This is not a locking mechanism

There appears to be no independent lock, so [short of making one] you will need to use 84 for the dual purpose of adjustment and locking.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

PostScript: [new find]

The equivalent manual from Axminster has a better illustration

[albeit with different numbering] **LINK**

https://discourse.southlondonmakerspace.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/847b6cb747dff1f9a57ef30bef34b92ba9fa1d59.pdf

MichaelG.

.

Edit: It also includes these magic words [stated twice, at the wrong locations] on p19

Ensure that the quill is locked in position before milling is commenced.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/05/2020 08:18:36

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

I did find the Axminster manual on-line and read the bit about locking the quill. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which bit is the quill lock. My Clarke manual now makes more sense, now the drawing error has been pointed out, but no where does it mention a lock for the quill.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 01/05/2020 08:41:46:

I did find the Axminster manual on-line and read the bit about locking the quill. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which bit is the quill lock. My Clarke manual now makes more sense, now the drawing error has been pointed out, but no where does it mention a lock for the quill.

.

I am quite certain that 84 is intended to be the quill lock

The fact that you needed to use it to adjust the ‘operating fit’ is simply a reflection of manufacturing tolerances.

MichaelG.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Replace item 84 with an M8 adjustable clamp lever. These people are one of many suppliers.

Goodhand

Note the cheap options are usually plastic levers and may not last long so I would suggest metal as the best value over time. I don't know what torque is required to give a satisfactory clamping force so you will have to judge what length of lever is best for you. These things come in many styles, colours materials and quality. The length of screw and lever varries and you can also get female versions to go over an existing thread.

Martin C

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

As Michael pointed out, that small screw is not for locking the quill, but for stopping it from spinning.

The slit in front is a method used for clamping that has been used on many machine tools, there's nothing strange about it.

You say it's difficult to readjust after being clamped tight for milling, I'll have to take your word as i don't own one.

So what I'd do is drill and tap a hole the same just above it, use the top one with the cap head allen screw adjusted for drilling, use the lower one (which should clamp a bit tighter) with a ratchet style lever clamp, that can be tightened when milling.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

Well I went into the workshop this morning with the intention of making a lever operated bolt to use as a quill lock. I tried the hex key in the original bolt which every one seems to think is the actual lock. I was unable to apply enough leverage to lock the quill, although it did make the down feed action a bit stiffer. The machine is 12 years old so possibly this is due to wear, but it hasn't really had that much use. I am now at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. I do not want to use a bit of tubing to get more leverage on the bolt for fear of shearing it. Any lever operated mechanism I made would not be any longer than the hex key anyway.

Thank you gentlemen for your input. I will now go and have a few beers and consider my options.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

sorry. duplicate posting deleted.

Edited By Anthony Knights on 02/05/2020 13:59:34

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Found the ref to Meek's locking handle – was in a now deleted thread (think Meek had some contretemps with the forum + deleted his posts including the image I hope it is ok to post this smaller version

He commented "

I have also added the the spindle lever lock with a combined thrust race to make the adjustment easier as well as a Belleville washer to make the lever stay put when the spindle is un-locked."

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 02/05/2020 13:56:57:

[…]

I am now at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. I do not want to use a bit of tubing to get more leverage on the bolt for fear of shearing it. Any lever operated mechanism I made would not be any longer than the hex key anyway.

Thank you gentlemen for your input. I will now go and have a few beers and consider my options.

.

Very sorry to hear that, Anthony

I can’t find a gentle way to say this, so please forgive the blunt approach …I think it doesn’t lock for the same reason as you needed to use it the first time : The bore in the casting is too big for the quill.

It may be possible to use it as an adjuster, and add a separate locking mechanism … l can only suggest that you take some careful measurements and report back.

… The combined brainpower of this forum should be able to devise something !!

MichaelG.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Anthony, this video popped in my YouTube feed last, as i was watching it, i noticed the machine had the design of lock adjustment i was trying to explain, take a look and you'll see what i meant by the 2 holes.

https://youtu.be/hbm7kpsbTlo

About the problem of it not closing up properly, take the m8 cap screw out, try a small depth gauge down the hole, see if it's possible the screw was bottoming out, which might have caused it to not tighten further?

Another way to check this would be put a G clamp across the front to squeeze the casting together while the screw is out, see if that works? If it does your screw might have bottomed out in the hole.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Link from previous post

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

Sorry guys. the screw has definitely NOT bottomed out in the hole, because it goes ALL THE WAY THROUGH. I've only had this machine since 2008 so I can't understand why I've never noticed it before.

I'm really getting peed off with this now as I spent some time this morning making some potential levers (spindle and lock nut) before I tried the hex wrench in the supposed locking screw. Doh!

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Hex socket in 3/8 ratchet, give it some more torque, if its not bottoming out, and you say tightening it with an allen key did work a little, try a hex socket in a ratchet, it's hard to get much torque from an allen key.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

I have come up with another idea. Make and fit a collar to go round the quill, under the casting. There looks to be plenty of room. Fix the collar up to the casting. If the collar was fitted with a cotter, locking the quill would be easy. The hard part is fitting it as it looks like a major dis-mantle plus knowing where it's safe to drill and tap the casting. I will have a look and see if I have a suitable sized piece of steel for the collar. I must admit I have never liked the split casting way of clamping things.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

If you can find a steel can that does not have a corrugated shape it would be a good starting point. Cut it down to allow a tab at the bottom to hold in place. If it's too thick to fit in then you can measure it and get some shim steel that is thinner and try that.

Martin C

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

I'm picturing a flanged sleeve, an upside down top hat screwed up to the casting from below? But bored to better tolerance?

Anyway, be interesting to see how you resolve this, keep us updated.

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