Boring tooling

[Roger BensonParticipant @rogerbenson45349]

I have just decided on the Sieg SX 2.7. That was a chore in itself. Now it is the tooling to choose. I was hoping to get it all from ARC but they don't seem to have all of what I want, or think I want. I would like to add the 3 axis Machine-DRO but at £500+, not yet.

R8 Collets

End Cutters – 2 Flute and 4 Flute

Slot Cutters –

R8 Boring Head

Fly Cutter

 

Chronos is a source but other suggestions appreciated.

 

Edited By Roger Benson on 04/05/2020 21:35:36

[Roger BensonParticipant @rogerbenson45349]

First one

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I think that the tools would more usually be described as End Mills (which can have 3, 4 or even 6 flutes ) and can often be used to cut on the side,

Slot drills are centre cutting, but nowadays, End Mills can also be obtained which are centre cutting.

A fly cutter is effectively an End Mill with only one cutting edge.

As far as I can see from the latest catalogue, all these items can be obtained from Arc Euro

Collets on P 16, End Mills and Slot Drills on Pp 28-30, Fly Cutter on P 30, and Boring Head on P 37.

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

For all round use I would go with 3-flute cutters, 6mm and 10mm will get you started best from Arc's HSS premium range.

I tend to use the smaller straight shanked flycutters a lot more than the big R8 shank one.

ER25 collets and holder would be more versatile with just a basic set of sizes to start with

50mm boring head.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Roger

Consider getting 3 flute centre cutting end mills which will do both accurate slots and side cutting rather than a mix of 2 flute slot drills and 4 flute end mills. Halves the number of types you need to stock.

Also consider buying end mill holders rather than collets. Most suppliers have a range of cutters with suitable flats on the shank, easy enough to add flats with a grinder to any unmissable bargains.

Its annoying that end mill holders are, for some inexplicable reason, more expensive than collets despite apparently being simpler to make. But they do make tool changing easier and more repeatable. The extra, not too much larger diameter than the cutter, reach can be a great advantage over collets where having the full diameter of the quill close to the job can be obstructive either physically or to visibility. Particularily with smaller cutters.

If I were starting over I'd give serious thought to having multiple end mill holders so all the cutters I'd generally use could be kept mounted and ready to go. Pretty much a milling machine equivalent to a lathes QCTP system once asensible number of holders have been obtained. Unfortunately about as expensive in the end too.

Clive

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Get one of these, the inserts are for steel, but the aluminium grade ones are freely available and cheap.

**LINK**

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I refrained from promoting my preference for ER collets.

They are very useful, in that being Extended Range, most (except the smaller sizes ) can accommodate a size varying by upto 1 mm. Consequently they can often be used to hold Metric or Imperial sized tools or material.

Other, fixed size collets will be damaged if a tool or work of the wrong size is clamped ,by them.

Howard

[Roger BensonParticipant @rogerbenson45349]

I have just sat through a couple of blondihacks tutorials and now have a much better understanding of the end cutters, there design and usage.

I do have some ER32 collets which I can put to use with a collet chuck.

Excuse my ignorance Jason but how do you fit a straight shank into the R8?

Howard. I have been back into ARC and found the Boring head with carbide cutters and then the arbor separate.

The R8 Fly cutter is out of stock. I will look into Jasons suggestion about using straight shank cutters when I understand what he means.

Who is a recommended source for 3 flute cutters?

Its going to be a long night because I want to get my order on the way.

 

Roger

Edited By Roger Benson on 04/05/2020 22:00:34

Edited By Roger Benson on 04/05/2020 22:11:44

Edited By Roger Benson on 04/05/2020 22:12:40

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

RDG is another supplier. However I would suggest you slow down a bit. Especially in relation to a big shell mill or flycutter. You can make a straight shank flycutter.
If you have ER collets already then getting a collet chuck is a no brainer and you can leave off R8 specific collets and end mill holders until really necessary. Otherwise I would advise against it as an early purchase.
I suggest starting with just a couple of sizes of slot drill. A slot drill will do anything a 4 flute end mill will do but not visa versa and 3 flute hybrids are more expensive to break.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Enjoy your new toys. I enjoy my old ones. I like my ER16 collets for small jobs on my small mill, but the ER32 does get most use and is suited to my larger mill. I have 4 or 5 nuts with the 32 and 2 (so far) for the 16 – makes swapping cutters easier/quicker.

Blondihacks is quite a good channel – not as technical as Joe Pi. Quinn does make mistakes and doesn’t always take the easiest route, but she does demonstrate how easy it is to get it wrong on those occasions, so a good channel for learners.

I recommend taking advice on which channels to watch on you tube, until you are confident of choosing between wheat and chaff, as some presenters have definite bad habits which should not be shown to anyone who might be encouraged to do the same. But you may already be aware of this sort of thing as you already have a lathe!

I reckon you may well use your mill much more than your lathe, from now on.

[Ronald MorrisonParticipant @ronaldmorrison29248]

Unless you have a specific need for the fly cutter, skip it and don't lose any sleep over it. It's faster for flattening a big surface but a good endmill will get the job done too.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The parallel shank flucutters are held as you would any plain shank milling cutter – in an R8 Collet, In a milling cutter holder or in an ER collet.

I tend to use mine for small stuff as well not just to flatten large surfaces, a single HSS bit is easily sharpened and will last for ages and get through many times more metal than an endmill will before it needs sharpening which is unlikely to be something a beginner can do.

As Clive says small cutters in a R8 or MT collet can make it very hard to see what you are doing, clear swarf or add cutting fluid. Also due to the safety guard design on the SX2.7 you will need to have the quill extended quite a lot if there is little tool projection beyond the end of the spindle which will be a less rigid setup.

[Roger BensonParticipant @rogerbenson45349]

Thanks all for your help and acceptance of my steep learning curve.

Jason. Yep I understand now about the straight shank part. It's the cutter not the attachment type. Learning all the correct terminology is another step. It is a shame because I had just bought a 2MT fly cutter for the milling attachment that I have. Is there a way to convert 2MT to R8?

I will sit back now, read some threads, and watch some youtube. JOE Pi next. Find some material stockists.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Roger, seeing as you are buying from ARC they list a R8 to MT2 adaptor, two types one for tanged tools and one for non tanged.

Ron

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Roger,

An eBay search for "R8 to MT2" sleeve throws up 20 results, all from China or Hong Kong, so they are certainly available. A more thorough search would undoubtedly give UK results,

I bought an R8 to MT3 for use in my mill as a stop-gap, "just-in-case" bit of kit to make use of the few pieces of MT3 tooling I retained from my old mill. Every time you introduce a sleeve or some such between your quill and the tooling risks adding run-out and misalignment. I quickly purchased dedicated R8 shanks and I don't think I've use the reducing sleeve for a couple of years

John

Edit:  Ron beat me to it.  Come to think of it, ARC is where I bought mine from!

Edited By John Hinkley on 05/05/2020 09:57:01

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

One way of improving visibility with small cutters is to hold them in an ER8 or ER11 straight shank collet with mini nut which, in turn, held in the spindle collet in the usual way. ER8 mini- nut is about 12 mm diameter and ER11 about 16 mm. ER 8 only goes up to 5 mm so can't cope with small cutters on the common 6 mm / 1/4 shanks.

Not stupidly expensive for 150 mm shank versions which will give you approaching 100 mm extra length below the end of the quill.

For example ER8 **LINK** and ER11 **LINK** .

Probably not something you need right now but worth noting for when you do.

Clive

[Anonymous]

Posted by Roger Benson on 04/05/2020 20:33:54:

R8 Collets – almost never use them to hold cutters, despite two R8 mills.

End Cutters – 2 Flute and 4 Flute – I'd agree with Jason and use mostly 3-flute cutters and some 4-flute for steel

Slot Cutters – only buy them as and when you need to cut an accurate slot

R8 Boring Head – I've got a cheap 'n' nasty one, which fortunately I only have to use once in a blue moon. I live in hope of getting a proper Bridgeport boring head at a sensible price!

Fly Cutter – never use them

Comments above.

Andrew

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A novice is more likely to have an accident with a fly cutter than any other milling attachment.

Getting an er25 collet holder and spanners will manage up to 16mm tools and with 6,8,10,12 and 16 collets will accommodate most of the affordable and useful sizes of cutters. The larger er32 can hold bigger, but the large endmills tend to get expensive.

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