Article Suggestion “White Elephant & Why”

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

I've bought a few things on Ebay out of idle curiosity, like these bent taps, that I'll probably never use:

.

Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

MichaelG.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Hopper on 16/11/2017 00:09:44:

Posted by ega on 15/11/2017 23:55:25:

David Colwill:

Brewer supports your white elephant derivation. It makes you wonder why there used to be White Elephant stalls at fetes!

I think the term has come to mean unwanted gifts in general.

The current usage seems to relate to possessions generally and would, of course, include gifts. I am not sure whether I feel better about the self-inflicted or the gifted.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/11/2017 18:37:29:

cross-slide vice, flood cooling system and a LED room-sized work light.

Dave

I don't know what use the light would have in our environment, probably why it's on your list. I agree flood coolant sounds like a great idea but in reality turns out to be far more trouble and hassle than it's worth if your machine was never designed to cope with it.

One I do have to disagree with though would be the cross slide vise. definitely ends all those moments on the pillar drill needing to swivel and turn the table to get the right alignment. The vise itself isn't very delicate must admit, but I use it to hold a smaller vise inside that, which is like a small toolmakers vise.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 16/11/2017 10:41:59

[Anonymous]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/11/2017 08:33:49:

Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

Correct, there was a discussion on the forum some years ago. The consensus was that the taps were used on specialised automatic nut tappers.

The shank of the tap is smaller than the minor diameter of the thread, so the tapped nuts can slide along it. The shank is held by two grippers that move in sequence to let the nuts past the first gripper, and then past the second gripper into a bin, without completely letting go of the tap.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the confirmation, Andrew

I have some straight 'reduced shank' taps with the usual square drive; but have yet to see the machine that takes those bent taps.

Perhaps you should tool-up and start producing nuts for the hobbyist community … I recall that we used to buy nuts by the thousand at prices that many amateurs would consider reasonable for ten.

MichaelG.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

One bit of tooling which I'll probably never use is the Dickson QCTP. I've got one on the hydraulic copy unit, but I'll never fit one to the main toolpost. I reckon 60% of my machining is one tool, around 25% is two tools and the remaining 15% is mostly three tools. I don't sweat centre height setting, as long as it looks about right compared to a tailstock centre that's good enough. You simply don't need to be worrying about the odd thou or so, especially with larger diameter work.

Andrew

I'm curious to know which three tools you use that cater for everything.

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

I do not have a white elephant,I have a whole herd of them !

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

For interest I got the mechanism off a player-piano for 99p. One particularly interesting part was that it used 'Mecanno' chain transmission. About 1million p-ps a year were being produced at the time Mecanno was invented.

There is a video of the bent taps machine on youtube that was linked in the previous thread I think.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Posted by larry Phelan on 16/11/2017 12:18:25:

I do not have a white elephant,I have a whole herd of them !

I'm glad I'm not the only one…..

Jim

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

1) Doesn't actually do what I thought it would.

2) Don't actually need to do what it does

3) Can't accommodate it on my machine

4) Doesn't suit the way I work

5) Needs a bunch of other (expensive?) stuff to be really useful

.

The wife says 4 of the 5 apply to me, but she's working on number 3

 

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 16/11/2017 15:27:13

Edited By Antony Powell on 16/11/2017 15:28:58

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 16/11/2017 01:48:06:

Posted by Phil H1 on 15/11/2017 16:52:20:

A set of X, Y & Z DROs. I bought them about 4 years ago and they are still sitting in their boxes. The reason? They tend to fit scaled handwheels on all three axes of a milling machine – so I use them. Anybody want to buy mine?

– I don't really see how you can call something a white elephant while admitting that you never actually tried it, Phil.

– I feel rather sure that if you had tried the scales you wouldn't think of them as white elephants – anything like. You might think that of your scaled handwheels though. There are quite a few posts in various threads here where others support that position.

Best things since sliced bread. If they broke, I'd buy a new set. Certainly wouldn't want to go back to handwheel scales.

And Clive, I'd hardly say they "cost a fortune" …. well, yeah if you limit your sights to Mitutoyo et al …. but there's plenty of decent hardware around that are well within the cost of other typical workshop tools and add-ons.

I have seen what they do in the real world and they are still here waiting for anybody who wants them – at a good price. I will probably add them to the for sale items.

Phil H

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Are we talking digital counters that measure the position of the hand wheels or linear scales?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 08:06:56:

One bit of tooling which I'll probably never use is the Dickson QCTP. I've got one on the hydraulic copy unit, but I'll never fit one to the main toolpost. I reckon 60% of my machining is one tool, around 25% is two tools and the remaining 15% is mostly three tools. I don't sweat centre height setting, as long as it looks about right compared to a tailstock centre that's good enough. You simply don't need to be worrying about the odd thou or so, especially with larger diameter work.

Andrew

You do also have the Britan rep lathe, where as us poor soles with just one lathe have to keep swapping between R/H tool, chamfer tool and parting tool when making say a batch of nuts. And it is not just the height that a QCTP helps with but it also puts the tool back in the same position so you can use the same handwheel or DRO setting each time you swap tools rather than having to measure each time as you would with a 4-way.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/11/2017 10:44:44:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/11/2017 08:33:49:

Am I correct in thinking that those are designed for quantity production of nuts, on a specific machine?

Correct, there was a discussion on the forum some years ago. The consensus was that the taps were used on specialised automatic nut tappers.

The shank of the tap is smaller than the minor diameter of the thread, so the tapped nuts can slide along it. The shank is held by two grippers that move in sequence to let the nuts past the first gripper, and then past the second gripper into a bin, without completely letting go of the tap.

Andrew

Why not chop off the bent ends?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think that was suggested at the time Neil.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was given a "universal sharpening jig".

About 10" high in a wooden box it has lovely well-made graduated swivels in 3 axes and holder to take lathe tools up to about 3/4" shank.

Presumably it goes on the bed of a grinder so you can set all sorts of compound angles.

One day I will figure out something to make using the bits.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was given a "universal sharpening jig".

About 10" high in a wooden box it has lovely well-made graduated swivels in 3 axes and holder to take lathe tools up to about 3/4" shank.

Presumably it goes on the bed of a grinder so you can set all sorts of compound angles.

One day I will figure out something to make using the bits.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

My workshop has an Ancient Psychic Tandem War Elephant*.

Stub.

*Google it

[Anonymous]

Posted by Chris Trice on 16/11/2017 11:29:37:

I'm curious to know which three tools you use that cater for everything.

Read the post again, it says three tools cover most situations, not everything.

For general turning I use insert tooling. So a CCMT holder, CCMT boring bar and parting tool covers most situations. Of course I can change insert radius and type without needing to change the tool. The few percent that aren't covered by the three basic tools are mostly thread cutting and a few HSS tools for accurate grooves or special threads. I don't generally use form tools as I have a hydraulic copy unit to make fancy shapes.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Posted by JasonB on 16/11/2017 18:46:55:

You do also have the Britan rep lathe, where as us poor soles with just one lathe have to keep swapping between R/H tool, chamfer tool and parting tool when making say a batch of nuts. And it is not just the height that a QCTP helps with but it also puts the tool back in the same position so you can use the same handwheel or DRO setting each time you swap tools rather than having to measure each time as you would with a 4-way.

If I had to do that to make a batch of nuts I'd have gone nuts, and taken up knitting a long time ago.

I don't recall the change of length ever being much of an issue. I tend to use a single tool to do the same operation on each part and then move onto the next, if possible. I don't have a DRO on my lathe, it's just not sufficiently useful to me. On the mill yes, the best single item I've ever bought, but on the lathe no. I suspect the DRO scales would rather be in the way on the lathe, whereas on the mill they don't limit anything.

One thing I like about my particular toolpost is that it has an index plate underneath, every 9° I think. So I can swivel the toolpost between tools, and for adding non-critical chamfers, and be assured that I can reset back to the original position within a thou or two.

Andrew

[IanTParticipant @iant]

There are quite a few things I don't use too often but they are still very nice to have when you need them…boring head and my 'adjustable' angle plate come to mind…

However, I think I will have to nominate my Formit 3-in-1 tool.

I purchased it because I mainly needed the rollers – which I have actually used on a few occasions. However the guillotine is pretty useless (although I hear they can be improved) and I haven't needed the V 'bender' for my modelling – a 'folder' is much more useable. The thing is also rather heavy for me to move around these days and takes up quite a bit of bench space.

So, on reflection, I think I should have purchased just a good set of rollers and not been tempted by the other functionality – which is of dubious usefulness in my case.

Regards,

IanT

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Neil just reminded my I have one of those drill sharpening fixtures for use on a bench grinders still brand new in its box sitting in the drawer under my grinder unused. Got it at a garage sale with the grinder and thought it would be right handy. But every time I need a drill sharpened I am in too much of a hurry to mess about with the jig and set it all up. One day…

And after spending several years laboriously making my fabricated version of GHT's Versatile Dividing Head, including the index plates and secondary "micro adjustment" mechanism that lets you index to within one thousandth of a degree, I am yet to use the indexing mechanism for anything other than making its own index plates and drilling the 814 holes therein. Every other job so far has been using the 60-tooth gear and a plunger for direct indexing. One day I'll need to make that 127 tooth gear… Meanwhile, the VDH spends most of its life on my dining table as a piece of art.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I picked up an 8" Abwood or J&S style milling vice from work that had been one of four that occasionally got used on a little Lumsden grinder. I thought it might be handy on the 48"x10" Beaver milling machine.

Note to the wise:- an 8" milling vice will NOT fit on a Bridgeport/Beaver sized milling machine! Since then, I picked up a couple of 6" Kurt copies and they are perfectly matched to the mill, but the big one keeps sitting there and taking up floor space.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Tailstock turrets!

Made the ME one for my V10P in the '70s but only used it a couple of times as tools got in the way on that short bed.

Bought one for the BH600G and found it only marginally more useful, though haven't used it the last year or so.

Boxford shaper, most definitely NOT a white elephant, but not being used as often as I expected and hoped for.

Geoff – No heating as 1998 Keston 40 only igniting occasionally.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Queen Elizabeth was following a long tradition of imposing herself on her Lords. The monarch did not have a reliable income, and the only way to feed the entourage was to park it on someone whose power derived from the monarch.

Similar schemes exist today …

Tim

[Author]

Posts