An Ounce of Practice is worth a Ton of Theory .

[JonParticipant @jon]

Not a fool its common logic! What cant be taught is common sense and applying learnt stuff in to practice.

Just because they have spent 4 to 5 yrs at Uni dont mean they can do the job, they have never worked. Further to that no on the job training which at the end of the day is what they are employed to do, not drag the company down until competant at exorbitant rates, should it survive the blunders.

Maybe an easier way and appropriate to this forum is those that have studied books on a subject eg know all the speeds and feed rates etc, wonder why they have problems in practice.

Quite right Stub i have had a few career changes and qualifications in other unrelated fields, what a waste of five years that was. Just gained me an advantage at time over competitors.

On the job training depends upon the type of work and field. Certainly my last job there has never ever been any books written, just the odd snippet of information which is mostly incorrect! Taught by the last working person who in turn taught by his dad and decendants. Of which only three of us alive in the world, no books will ever be written its a guarded secret that will be taken to the grave. Alternative way of looking at it is we spent the time to learn the hard way on the job, theres no other way. What i learnt within 50 minutes would have taken literally 5 months to learn at college, now imagine time served a student would be dead before even started work. Old gaffer used to have a few sayings one being and quite fitting "a little knowledge is dangerous"

On the other hand eg computer related stuff since it involves on the job training whilst at college or uni, may be advantageous in certain fields.

To cap it all my daughter has a degree in a totally unrelated field. It gained her entry in to a massive global organisation, 4 months in already tipped for European management. The difference there she applied every day 'learnt' stuff, second nature to us that you dont need to go to school to learn.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> the premise that you do not need education is on very shaky ground

Absolutely true, but as a recent convert to home education, I have discovered there are many ways to skin that particular cat.

I am a firm believer that practical experience is as important as book learning. I had to go out and practice in the real world to even start to understand the realities of what the ecology I was taught meant. The worst botanists are the ones who understand how to use the books (keys) but have seen very few wuild plants. They find loads of rarities

As the saying goes give a man a fish, he eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he'll wipe out your cod stocks.

Neil

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You can read as many theoretical books about sex as you want, get a degree in relationships and then become a world renowned sex therapist

…and you've never touched a member of the opposite sex (or the same sex !)

And you will be officially known as "A Government Expert" receiving 50k plus a year

Doesn't mean you really know anything about it though, does it

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

In my last career, I was a nurse, I was hospital trained, we worked on the wards, yes emptying bed pans, and all that, but also doing dressings, generally looking after the patients alloted to us, and maintaining the equipment. A number of years after I left nursing, I became a patient, the nursing students were being trained at the Polytech, and I ended up having to show my nurse how to manage my blood drip, she was a 3rd year student, and should have known what to do. There were a number of other problems they needed help with, that we when being trained on the job would have handled by the first year of training. Ian S C

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

once "worked" with doctors in training ( yr2 I think/remember ) having met first corpse..for disection…this experience caused arround 20-30 % to quit for different career…two years of hard study wasted…may be some sort of appitude/ attitude test should have been applied earlier ..

Sorry but it isn't an either or world…certainly not in engineering..I have a degree in engineering and still find practicle guys have an edge in certain areas..and they still come to me for basic trig…it takes all sorts…UNDERSTANDING the subject is the key..however you get there.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

How do you differentiate between theory and practice? Is theory reading a 'paper' on "The science of metal fracture and its application in creating circular voids in steel" If you are in the factory and told "drill a hole using this twisty thing in that big electric machine" is that theory while practice is "copy what I do as I do it" or even "here's a machine shop see if you can guess how to make a hole".

In my case I got a degree, got an unrelated job associated with one hobby (not modelling), and having read a few copies of ME when I found the machine shop worked out how to use the kit for myself. Theory or practice?

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Jon,

First, congratulations tto your daughter on getting started on a good career path. It's very difficult in today's climate whether you have a degree or not.

"Just because they have spent 4 to 5 yrs at Uni dont mean they can do the job, they have never worked. Further to that no on the job training"

I don't think you are familiar with modern engineering degrees. One reason for them now being 4 to 5 years is that the course includes a year workig in industry. In one of my previous jobs I took engineering students for their industrial year and I made sure that they got the necessary training. Perhaps yet more could be done. At the top engineering university in France they have about 2000 students but only 1000 are on campus.

The exams for engineering degrees do not just require the regurgitation of facts learned from books but the application of those facts to solve problems.

"Certainly my last job there has never ever been any books written, just the odd snippet of information which is mostly incorrect! Taught by the last working person who in turn taught by his dad and decendants. Of which only three of us alive in the world, no books will ever be written its a guarded secret that will be taken to the grave."

This seems to be a very selfish attitude. If your skills are really so exceptional why are you not making the effort to pass them on. Perhaps you could enlighten us? What are these skills?

Finally, if you really think theory is so useless, consider the following examples:

In the middle of the 19th centuary a mathematics professor, George Boole, developed a form of algebra for analysing logic, later known as Boolean algebra. It had no application at the time but without it we would not have been able to design computers.

More recently Albert Einstien developed the theory of relativity using only "thought experiments", no practical tests at all. Without this theory we would have no nuclear energy and no accurate GPS system.

Later quantum theory was formulated by a number of theoretical physicists. Without quantum theory there would be no modern electronics.

I could go on but I think the point is made that we need a balance. We need theoreticians, professional engineers, craftsmen, technicians, etc. Few theoreticians can do the work of craftsmen and vice versa.

Russell.

[Brian WarwickParticipant @brianwarwick88192]

Brilliantly put Russell

and Jon surely you shot yourself in the foot with your comment

"To cap it all my daughter has a degree in a totally unrelated field. It gained her entry in to a massive global organisation, 4 months in already tipped for European management. The difference there she applied every day 'learnt' stuff, second nature to us that you don't need to go to school to learn."

if someone with a degree is tagged a waste of space then why did you let your daughter waste 4 or 5 years of her life studying for a degree and furthermore if she didn't need to go to school to learn then why did she waste so much time on education.

Fortunately for your daughter not everyone is so anti the graduate or alternatively no louts applied for the position or she would have had no chance.

I can also go along with the common sense approach as I dropped out of school with no formal qualifications and have had a reasonably successful career working my way up to managing director of a small but successful company but maybe I could have done better had I had an education at the outset who knows

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