Steam generator

This topic has 20 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 27 January 2018 at 14:35 by Carl Wilson 4.

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26 January 2018 at 13:56 #338380
Windy
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@windy30762
Looking at various ways of controlling high temperature steam came across this steam generator it's a bit old hat now but would solve many of the problem getting enough steam for record attempt turbine powered vehicles.
The steam engine purist would probably think you should still have a fireman stoking the steam generator.
Could be a grey area for classification of steam powered record attempt machines. There are some steam jet powered drag vehicles about plus record attempt machines.

Edited By Windy on 26/01/2018 13:59:01
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26 January 2018 at 13:56 #25778
Windy
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@windy30762
26 January 2018 at 14:05 #338382
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
That unit uses hydrogen peroxide. You would need at least 90 percent hydrogen peroxide. Any amount of contamination in this will initiate decomposition with massive heat release. Basically it will burn your house down.

I looked into getting strong hydrogen peroxide for rocket engine use some time back. There was a plant making it in Sweden. It exploded taking with it one of the two proprietors hands.

You need a home office licence to purchase and possess it. It’s kind of more trouble than its worth.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 26/01/2018 14:06:48

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 26/01/2018 14:08:34
26 January 2018 at 14:12 #338384
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
It should be added that the catalyst zeolites are also insanely expensive.
26 January 2018 at 14:38 #338387
Windy
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@windy30762
Full size speed record attempt machines have always a cost involved but there are speed enthusiasts in this country and abroad that have legally obtained hydrogen peroxide of required strength.

Rocket mam Brown was using it some years ago.

**LINK**

Even the Nitro you use if over a certain percentage for models and drag racing you have to have a license in my drag racing, sprinting days anyone could buy the 90% nitro.

**LINK**

Edited By Windy on 26/01/2018 14:39:53
26 January 2018 at 15:06 #338392
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
Getting the home office licence to purchase and store is not that big a deal, but the storing of it in anything except a purpose built facility would be problematic in the extreme.

It’s classed as a hazardous chemical, a fire risk and an explosive ingredient as well as an oxidiser. You’d need proper facilities to contain any spills and to deal with them. So for anything less than a fully funded company with proper well founded premises it’s a non starter.
26 January 2018 at 18:58 #338416
Windy
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@windy30762
I understand with terrorist threats and H & S the need to control various chemicals.

Wonder where it will all end this control as looking on the internet your supposed to be able to make explosions with house hold chemical products.

Edited By Windy on 26/01/2018 19:11:03
26 January 2018 at 19:12 #338418
Brian G
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@briang
Takes me back, I remember watching Vanishing Point at Santa Pod **LINK**

Brian
26 January 2018 at 19:14 #338419
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
I know what you mean. However, 90% or high test peroxide ain’t no household chemical. It will kill you soon as look at you.
26 January 2018 at 19:31 #338421
Samsaranda
Participant
@samsaranda
HTP, high test peroxide was used as fuel on the Blue Steel nuclear weapons carried by the RAF V Bombers in years gone by, very stringent safety procedures when using it to fuel the weapons, very nasty stuff not something to play around with at home.

Dave W
26 January 2018 at 19:44 #338424
Windy
Participant
@windy30762
Carl did you consider using Nitrous Oxide for a liquid fuelled rocket here is a link to a rocket car powered using it and a common fuel

**LINK**

Knights Arrow was at Elvington a few years ago I think it was it's owner who took a lot of interest in my steamer when I was doing a demo fire up.

You never know there might be a flash steam car going up the drag strip someday.

Edited By Windy on 26/01/2018 19:55:25

Edited By Windy on 26/01/2018 20:05:30
26 January 2018 at 20:36 #338430
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
Yes I’ve looked at Nitrous Oxide as an oxidiser. I’ve also looked at the possibility of decomposing it over a catalyst to obtain hot oxygen gas.

Unfortunately, even with the most active catalysts a lot of energy has to be put in to start the reaction. And the most effective catalyst zeolites are also prohibitively expensive.

Nitrous Oxide would still be my oxidiser of choice, combusted in a conventional way.
27 January 2018 at 00:36 #338449
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
Just as an aside that steam generator is an almost verbatim American copy of the Walter one in the Me 163 Komet rocket aircraft.
27 January 2018 at 00:43 #338452
vintagengineer
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@vintagengineer
The Me 163 was powered by Hydrazine, Methanol and water so why did they need to generate steam?

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 27/01/2018 00:36:35:
Just as an aside that steam generator is an almost verbatim American copy of the Walter one in the Me 163 Komet rocket aircraft.
27 January 2018 at 08:42 #338470
Stuart Bridger
Participant
@stuartbridger82290
This book is a fascinating read into the history of liquid rocket fuel development. It does get a bit down in the weeds regarding the chemistry at times. Some very interesting engineering challenges, as well as some very hair raising descriptions of when things didn't go quite right. Very sobering when you read of the toxicity and instability of some of the stuff that they were using. https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf

Edited By Stuart Bridger on 27/01/2018 08:43:10
27 January 2018 at 09:09 #338471
Carl Wilson 4
Participant
@carlwilson4
Why did they need to generate steam?

To drive the turbo pump that pushed the fuel and oxidiser into the combustion chamber.

The V2 also did the same, as did many other German rockets. The fact that it was a steam generator is incidental; it should really be viewed as a gas generator.
27 January 2018 at 09:15 #338473
Brian G
Participant
@briang
Posted by vintagengineer on 27/01/2018 00:43:52:

The Me 163 was powered by Hydrazine, Methanol and water so why did they need to generate steam?

Did it use a steam turbine powered fuel pump like the V2 (which used a sodium permanganate catalyst in its steam generator)?

Brian
27 January 2018 at 11:29 #338490
vintagengineer
Participant
@vintagengineer
They could have used silver and the hydrogen peroxide to produce the steam.
27 January 2018 at 11:39 #338492
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Looks like something out of a Whitehead Torpedo. Now that the British government is to down size the armed forces, you might pick one up in a govt surplus store.

Ian S C
27 January 2018 at 14:34 #338514
Carl Wilson 4
Participant
@carlwilson4
Yes vintage engineer they could have used silver. After the war Britain dud just that, not only to produce steam but for the rocket engine itself. The peroxide went through a silver catalyst into the combustion chamber. The oxygen gas and steam was then so hot it would ignite the kerosene that was then injected in.
27 January 2018 at 14:35 #338515
Carl Wilson 4
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@carlwilson4
Yes Brian it did.
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