windoze 10

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I've just received a pop up telling me that support for Windows 10 is coming to an end and I should restart my computer to get an update to a version of windows which will be supported. Anyone got an opinion on whether this is a good idea, or is the evil empire trying to scam me?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I've had the update message for a while. I did try to install it but message came as insufficient space and use external drive/memory stick. I have tried the memory stick and not been successful in updating (read total dummy)

Now decided to leave well alone.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Vanishingly unlikely that support for Windows 10 is ending ….it's the current Windows version.

 

Support for Windows 7 is ending however. If you indiscriminately install all the "Important" updates for Windows-7, that copy will be auto-updated to Windows 10 at some point.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:51:54

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:49:00:

Vanishingly unlikely that support for Windows 10 is ending ….it's the current Windows version.

 

Support for Windows 7 is ending however. If you indiscriminately install all the "Important" updates for Windows-7, that copy will be auto-updated to Windows 10 at some point.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 28/09/2019 22:51:54

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?

Did I waste my time in upgrading to Win 10 via the Microsoft "create media" site?

Edited By ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:59

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I think the message would have indicated that support for a particular build of Windows 10 is coming to an end and that you should install the next release – still Windows 10, but a later version.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

When Microsoft introduced Windows 10 it insisted it had no plans to produce any further WIN-number systems, but only to "up-grade" that one system ( "up-date" is more accurate!).

I have not seen anything to indicate that will change, but I know many users have found the automatic process very frustrating.

I think a more serious problem would arise if MS starts to make us rent the software rather than buy it outright. Adobe already does that with its Win-ZIP and pdf-converter; and I think some CAD publishers do too.

'

Having had previous, and very bad, experience with WIN-10 I do not want it. If forced though, would I still be able to use Word, Excel and possibly Access files going back over many years, or continue to use software such as TurboCAD and some photo-faffing and other third-party programmes, or indeed the MS-'Office' set I had with WIN-XP?

I may be wrong but I gained an impression that the Office-type programmes allied to W10 are very stripped-down; with MS favouring the "smart"-phone based entertainments and Facebook market, over using the computer for serious purposes.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:28:

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?

Not exactly since I didn't keep the KB references – I just declined the update and moved on – but:

I never let Windows Update do its thing automatically. I check what each update is going to do to my system and then decide whether to install it (very interesting sometimes and not just in this context).

On at least two occasions this year, a so called "important update" (used to be called "critical" …. important to whom?) when checked, amounted to an auto update to Windows-10. Same thing has happened at least once on my Windows-8 installation.

Some related info here.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I've tried several times over the last month to install the new update.

It gets so far and then gives up!

I'll just plod along until something happens.

Jim

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

JIm there is a troubleshooter for this. I think this is caused by an error in an internal list of updates on the machine. Try:

Tap windows key on keyboard

Click on the settings icon (gear symbol)

Select update and security (last item)

Select trouleshoot (5th item on the list on left)

Select windows update (4th item on the list under 'get up and running) – then run the troubleshooter.

Hope this works for you; it often has for me!

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Thank you Martin,

I tried that this morning, still no joy!

Jim

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Thank you Martin,

I tried that this morning, still no joy!

Jim

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Martin, I FULLY took your advice and went through the troubleshooter. The problem turns out to be, needing to restart BEFORE starting the update!

Thank you again Martin.

Jim

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 01:40:19:

Posted by ega on 28/09/2019 23:36:28:

Interesting point re auto-update; can you give chapter and verse?

Not exactly since I didn't keep the KB references – I just declined the update and moved on – but:

I never let Windows Update do its thing automatically. I check what each update is going to do to my system and then decide whether to install it (very interesting sometimes and not just in this context).

On at least two occasions this year, a so called "important update" (used to be called "critical" …. important to whom?) when checked, amounted to an auto update to Windows-10. Same thing has happened at least once on my Windows-8 installation.

Some related info here.

Thanks for the interesting linked article. I couldn't see any dates in this and wonder if it applied only during the period that a free Win 10 upgrade was available; this has now ended but an upgrade is apparently still possible (for those that want it) via the media creation site that I mentioned.

MS would obviously like all Windows installations to be Win 10.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by duncan webster on 28/09/2019 22:25:07:

I've just received a pop up telling me that support for Windows 10 is coming to an end and I should restart my computer to get an update to a version of windows which will be supported. Anyone got an opinion on whether this is a good idea, or is the evil empire trying to scam me?

I did a major upgrade to Windows 10 last week on two machines without more than the usual multiple reboots and switching on of unwanted features. (Linux does upgrades far better!) One good thing, there's a new screen explaining Privacy issues, which is a considerable improvement on silently unlocking all the doors as Microsoft did before. I didn't get anything new I wanted but it boots faster, hurrah!

Microsoft's support regime has changed. Previously, buying a version – NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8 etc. – got 5 years 'Mainstream' support followed by 5 years of 'Extended' support. Mainstream support consists of help, feature upgrades, bug fixes, performance improvements and security patches. Extended is security patches only.

Windows 10 is different. There is no Windows 11 in the pipeline to replace it. Instead, Windows 10 is permanently 'Mainstream', which simplifies support considerably. Except there's a catch. To get support, customers must take all the important updates. If you don't update and then hit a problem, Microsoft won't fix it or have any responsibility.

Does updating matter? Probably. Most dangerous would be a security exploit like someone using a hole in Windows10 to hack into your bank account and empty it, or a blackmailer encrypting all your data and demanding money to release it. The other serious problem occurs when an application or hardware has to be upgraded or replaced and won't load or run on an out-of-date setup. Then you have to upgrade Windows 10, like it or not! The third problem is ignoring a large number of Windows upgrades causes them to queue up. Applying a stack of updates going back a few years is more likely to fail in difficult to unpick ways. Also, if the machine has to be given to a paid repairer, he won't waste time trying to debug an obsolete installation. You'll pay him to apply the upgrades. I suggest:

• Windows 10 should be kept up-to-date if the machine contains valuable data, is connected to the internet, runs modern applications, and would cause obvious pain if it failed beyond repair.
• At the other extreme, no need to fuss over a stand-alone workshop computer, perhaps happily running a CNC machine. How often do you ask for Support?
• Unfortunately, quite a lot of us are in the blurred middle, for example using computers for little more than non-critical browsing and email. Here keeping life simple may be the goal. This is the most difficult case to prescribe for because there are no clear rules. Everything depends on user perception of risks and values and we are all different. However, in this camp think carefully about your tolerance of pain when the computer goes wrong. If you expect or need to fix it, take upgrades. No need to mess with the reliable old friend if the plan is to calmly replace a broken machine with a new one. But don't forget plenty of wives have been seduced by reliable old friends!

I keep my Desktop machines up-to-date because I need current applications and good security. I'm less concerned about my collection of RaspberryPi and other secondary computers, but I find even these are worth updating occasionally, usually to get useful bug fixes or application upgrades.

In my professional life in IT, the really big trouble was caused by either brand-new systems or those out of support. In my experience rotting computer systems are horrible: constant problems, no parts, special contracts, no-one willing or skilled to work on them, unreliable, security risks galore, and incompatible. Amazing how much time and money was wasted on junk before replacements were authorised.

Dave

[Bryan Cedar 1Participant @bryancedar1]

WINDOZE 10.

I fell asleep reading this !

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There's a catch.

I have an older laptop running W10 and there was a big update in, I think, May. This creates issues in a small number of machines with very specific driver/program combinations. I don't think any of these apply to me but the 'further information' tells me the update won't be applied until Microsoft have patched the parts of the update applicable to my computer.

Knowing my luck this will happen in the middle of an astro imaging session…

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by ega on 29/09/2019 09:54:48:

Posted by Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 01:40:19:

Some related info here.

Thanks for the interesting linked article. I couldn't see any dates in this and wonder if it applied only during the period that a free Win 10 upgrade was available

 

The first sentence of the link seems to clarifiy that a bit.

…. and yes, I'm sure MS would like to get everyone on Win-10. For the (reasonably legitimate) reason that it greatly reduces their support requirement but also – since updates are no longer ultimately optional in the Home version – MS has complete control. Including introducing a subscription model whenever they want,

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 29/09/2019 17:21:42

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/09/2019 14:06:57:

I have an older laptop running W10 and there was a big update in, I think, May. This creates issues in a small number of machines with very specific driver/program combinations.

There were a series of updates (rollups) over the last 6 or so months whose potential (and stated) side-effect was to upset the NIC configuration resulting in the need to re-install the NIC driver and set up the network again …. "we're working on a fix". Are these guys kidding?

Having a fairly extensive LAN with several machines and NAS boxes (and being older than I used to be when I set the whole thing up ) I wasn't about to go there. MS finally came out with an update to fix the underlying problem a month or two ago.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I do have to wonder why anyone would not want to go to W10 from W7 unless they have a machine running a sensitive application they can't risk breaking.

Neil

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I suspect because MS were trying to ram it down everyone's throat without explain why it would be better. Having now got a W10 machine as well I'm quite happy with it, but then I was OK with W3.1, then 95, then XP and W7.

I can recommend the Libre Office software for word processing, spreadsheets etc, as it's name suggests it's free, and copes with docs produced by MS office

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/09/2019 21:28:12:

I do have to wonder why anyone would not want to go to W10 from W7 unless they have a machine running a sensitive application they can't risk breaking.

I have the same sense of wonder in reverse ….. perhaps because we don't all march to the same drummer?

Time for

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The business model of the IT trade led by near-monopolies like Microsoft is "It if ain't broke, break it!"

They forget, fail to realise or wilfully ignore the simple fact that if the uses and requirements of the machine do not change, there is no need to change the machine. Do I need an up-to-the-mark CNC machining-centre in place of my conventional machines, to make the same parts for a model steam-engine? Hardly. The task has not changed and both would handle the work, in their own ways. MS though strives to make you change everything every couple of years or so, for identical tasks.

Also, having used MS systems from MS-DOS to (briefly (WIN-10) at work and later, at home, XP and the MS Office programmes allied to it, marked MS' peak of usefulness and quality, and even then they were by no means perfect.

WIN 7 is not too bad, 8 was very unpopular although really only WIN-7 with pictures instead of names on the desk-top (according to the dealer trying to sell it!).

W10 looked and proved, cheap, gimmicky and messy. I had been careful to use the "Custom install" with the small virtual button rather than "FULL" or whatever it labelled the BIG one that gives MS full access to your computer use. I soon took MS' offer to revert to 7, but it took me the evening to recover the half-dozen or so web-site registrations 10 had deleted.

Sometimes I wonder what real differences there are from one edition or so-called "up-grade" to the next. After all, a computer can only work in a certain way to perform a given task, and most so-called "improvements" or "up-grades" seem only to be tinkering with the screen layout and hiding menus, to annoy the users.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

I'm not a computer expert by any means, but I too have gone through the various versions of Microsoft from the early DOS, and now unfortunately to Win10. I had no choice in the matter as my laptop with Win7 died and the new one came with Win10.

I was perfectly happy with Win7, it would take all the software I had bought over the years including MS Office 97, Photoshop etc. I could use my scanner and A3 printer without any problems. Win10 will not let me load any of them, and the other equipment is now redundant! The Win10 word program works when it feels like it, and when I'm writing anything, including this, the curser moves around my script and inserts at random what I'm writing. It's a constant battle to keep everything where it should be. My photos suddenly duplicated for no reason when I transferred them onto my new computer, and with so many I have no way of deleting all the copies, some of which have 3 duplicates!

If anyone has had similar problems and has any solutions I would be most grateful to hear from them. I for one would be very happy to revert to Win7.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

For those wanting to revert to windows 7, one can download an ISO image of the installation disc from various sites on the internet. The version I have does not even ask for a code to be entered during the installation process. I have disabled the internet capability and just use it for software which doesn't have a Linux equivalent (old photoshop program and some games). I use Linux for all internet activity, as well as the Libre Office writer and calc and playing DVD,s etc.

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