Windows 10 forced upgrade

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Posted by OuBallie on 21/05/2016 19:08:11:

Anyone wanting to make absolutely sure MS does not force W10 on you, get:

Never10 from GRC.com

Geoff – My days of MS grief ended in 2007/8, hip hip ^*% hooray!

Wish I'd seen this two days ago. I am one of the latest victims.

Last time I did it voluntarily and had to go back because I have some expensive video software which was iffy on 10. Unfortunately last time I reverted back and landed in the blue screen of death and a bill for £60 and a fortnight to fix.
Looking for a suitable juncture to dump microsoft altogether like OuBallie.

Edited By Anthony Kendall on 22/05/2016 12:27:11

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Notwithstanding some of my earlier comments in this thread, it occurred to me that I have an HP laptop, which I bought for extended trips but which is rarely used these days. It has Win-7 installed which I didn't like much – probably because I never spent the time to chase down and change all the MS dumbed-down, self-serving and over-cautious default settings. I thought I could do worse than experiment with W-10 on this machine. So…

1. Arguably the simplest way to get around the "will it screw up my computer?"; "can I undo the upgrade?"; "how long do I have to do that?" type questions is to back up the Win-7 system first. I elected to back up the whole HD. First I tried doing (selected) outstanding Windows Updates on the W-7 setup but found, as others have, that I couldn't actually make contact with the MS server. So I decided it didn't really matter and went ahead with the backup anyway.
(As an aside, it seems the MS servers are getting pretty busy these days. This might explain MS's policy of forcing automatic updates on users, since by that means it can control the timing of traffic to its servers. Just a thought).

2. By going to **LINK** I found the confirmation of my earlier head-scratching post – that you can actually download an upgrade image file to write to DVD or USB-Drive (whether downloading and saving it would protect you when the free upgrade offer expires in June – or whenever – remains to be seen …. the image might expire at the same time). I downloaded the DVD image and cut a disk.

3. It's not actually very clear whether the install disk thus created is supposed to be used as a boot disk or whether the setup is to be invoked from within Windows. I tried booting with it and it asked me a bunch of setup questions then told me that it couldn't proceed until I started Windows and ran setup from there (!). So I did that and it re-ran the install but, significantly, didn't repeat the questions that it asked before. So it seems at least that smart.

4. Somewhere along the line (on the website I think) you are admonished to be sure to remove the DVD from the drive before the first reboot. Otherwise the setup will start over I didn't see any warning of the reboot and more or less guessed when would be a good time. Considering that some of the process is very lengthy, there is no pause button – and some of us need the bathroom! MS could do better here I think. This probably wouldn't be a problem if you used the alternative USB drive install (unless, presumably, your machine is set to boot from USB).

5. I made sure not to accept any defaults throughout the setup but went the "customised" route. In almost all cases that resulted in rejecting the MS defaults.

Other than that, the upgrade seemed to go fairly well. I haven't actually used it significantly since. I did install Classic Shell (wouldn't want to run any post-XP version of Windows without that). I dug around the internet and have a list of the recommended settings to change from MS defaults – mostly concerned with privacy. Most of these I'd already covered by not accepting the defaults. Now I just face the uphill battle with MS's over-the top security that prevents me from accessing a whole bunch of MY OWN HD. That could take many weeks if the Win-8 experience is anything to go by (I won't be updating that machine any time soon).

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

Like Martin I had the uninvited upgrade to W10 which I have been resisting but have found W10 works faster and no issues except there are no games on W10 now, you have to pay for them. I am not an avid game player but would often mindlessly play solitaire whilst solving a problem.

Clive

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Please see and listen to the BBC radio five live night time tech prog which I have linked to in my new topic….

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The missus computer tried to upgrade… again (Win7 64bit) and I got out of it by rolling back to a restore point from a few days previously, but it was a bit of a struggle. She's now not allowed to use internet explorer and I've installed Firefox 27.01 for her browsing purposes. Internet Explorer seems to be an integral part of this virus style of upgrade being used by MS.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My windows 10, loaded on last week has some games, X Box, Microsoft Solitare Collection, Minecraft. Had 10 installed after my 7 got hit by a bug. Ian S C

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

I have been considering updating my laptop but the thought of Windoz 10 and some of the comments here about it have me a bit worried. I'm quite happy with Windoz 7 but the old laptop is getting well worn.

One way I have found to get round the automatic installation of W10 on new machines is to go for one that has W10 Pro as the operating system. In there it has the ability to 'downgrade' to W7.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by steamdave on 28/05/2016 11:23:49:

I have been considering updating my laptop but the thought of Windoz 10 and some of the comments here about it have me a bit worried. I'm quite happy with Windoz 7 but the old laptop is getting well worn.

One way I have found to get round the automatic installation of W10 on new machines is to go for one that has W10 Pro as the operating system. In there it has the ability to 'downgrade' to W7.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

True, but if you have the Pro version it's probably not worth reverting to 7 unless you have software that won't run on Windows 10.

The reason is that the Pro version is for Business and Government use. These purchasers are not naive and they won't knowingly use software that leaks information. Windows 10 Pro is for the security savvy market, and, so far as I know, it does not have any of the privacy issues bundled with the consumer versions,

Five choices:

1. Pay for Windows 10 Pro
2. Use the free version but take the time and trouble to research and disable undesirable features every time Windows 10 upgrades
3. Take the risk of using the unmodified free version.
4. Switch to something else, like Apple or Linux. Bear in mind that these aren't Microsoft clones, may not do everything you need, and may have other "features" that you don't care for.
5. Choose to block upgrades. This approach is a security risk and, by being out-of-date, might also prevent you loading a much needed application upgrade. The inevitable failure of ageing hardware may give you severe culture shock if after several years, the replacement turns out to have been developed well outside your comfort zone.

What do I do? I own several computers and my solution is a combination of Options 2, 4 and 5.

Nearly all of my computing needs are met by Ubuntu.

The main reasons I use Windows 10 are: certain applications aren't available for Linux (and won't run on wine, the Windows Emulator); or I need to guarantee file compatibility with another Windows user; or new hardware only comes with drivers for Windows 10. I have an old machine dedicated to a single purpose that hasn't been upgraded for nearly 5 years. I never connect it to anything else and there will be serious bother when it breaks.

Cheers,

Dave

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Microsoft is now tricking users into installing W10.

Have a look at this and be shocked that a company like MS would stoop this low.

I was dual booting OSX with Vista, but every time I tried to update Vista it was nothing but pain, so i formatted that drive, and now MS IS history as far as I'm concerned.

Geoff – Good progress on the Austin

[Stephen BensonParticipant @stephenbenson75261]

Upgraded on purpose from win7 a couple of days ago but found win10 to be buggy and actually would not let my pc shut down would not share the printer with the other pcs in the house and would not run some software I need for my work thank god the reverse back to win7 option worked I have now installed never10

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by OuBallie on 28/05/2016 14:47:54:

… be shocked that a company like MS would stoop this low.

.

I find it rather difficult to be shocked by the lowness of Microsoft's stooping

Remember; this is the company that killed both Netscape and Lotus.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: … Oops … Forgot to mention OS/2

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:09:18

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Too late to edit my previous post, but this short paper from ECIS in 2009 is worth a look.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:35:32

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 12:56:01:

Remember; this is the company that killed both Netscape and Lotus.

Netscape isn't dead. It morphed into Firefox.

Russell.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 03/06/2016 14:18:08:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 12:56:01:

Remember; this is the company that killed both Netscape and Lotus.

Netscape isn't dead. It morphed into Firefox.

.

Commercial product morphs into open source freebie …

**LINK**

In business terms, I would call that a 'kill'

MichaelG.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:31:33:

Too late to edit my previous post, but this short paper from ECIS in 2009 is worth a look.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:35:32

Thanks for that. Not sure I've seen it before.

"Microsoft’s conduct over the last two decades has demonstrated Microsoft’s willingness and ability to engage in unlawful conduct to protect and extend its core monopolies. This conduct has caused real harm to consumers, who continue to pay high prices and use lower quality products than would have prevailed in a competitive market"

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Chaps

Our IT department reports seeing a number of unasked for upgrades occurring around the lab. The suggestion is to download the free tool on this site.

**LINK**

"Dear all, we are getting reports of Windows machines being automatically updated to Windows 10 despite the user repeatedly clicking the 'do not upgrade' option. One upgraded you only have a limited time to downgrade before that option is removed. The upgrade appears to be free, and it is for a while, however it appears Microsoft are then planning to move to a subscription model, maybe as soon as mid 2016. From then on you'll need to pay per year to keep using it. There are also reports of some machines failing to upgrade properly and then being unusable. We have one such machine in IT at the moment, and I know of a couple of others."

Hope you find this useful.

regards Martin

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I understand, Windows Live Mail is also going to die? The IT magazines I have read give details but it get a bit complicated to keep it going.

Anybody know more?

Clive

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Well, it went OK on my laptop, so I'm going to make TWO full backups of my HDD as well as my regular backup/restore disc. I also have a W8.1 recovery setup on a 16 gig USB stick.

What can possibly go wrong…

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I reported that I have had no problems with W10– well I have now, been off all morning while W10 updates were performed. No warnings, no asking for permission. All I can see different is something called cortina ( or similar) which does not seem to do anything. I suppose I am going to devote more days of my life to figure out what next.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Too late to edit my previous post, but this short paper from ECIS in 2009 is worth a look.

MichaelG.

Interesting reading which condenses and confirms all I've ever known and suspected about Microsoft. Thanks Michael.

I would though just add two other items to the list – the attack on Lindows/Linspire whereby as I understand it, Microsoft attempted to force a name change as Lindows was too near Windows (!). Initially this failed in an English speaking country because windows is a glass thing you look through. Undeterred, Microsoft then went to a non-English speaking country – and succeeded in forcing a name change. There were other reasons why Lindows/Linspire failed, but this can not have helped.

The other item that really does concern me is the Secure Boot Feature of modern pc's in which Microsoft insists that these machines can only boot using signed and secure programs. Microsoft has denied that this is an attempt to shut out Linux, but this does seem to me to be the start of a campaign by Microsoft to eliminate Linux by making it difficult to obtain a pc which will boot to Linux. Maybe I'm wrong, but past experience of Microsoft does not give me much hope.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

I really don't understand why instead of this continual moaning about MS folk just don't dump it and use another OS.

I did a long time ago.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Some good news– since the forced "updates " today I can't get Facebook.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

OK,I have re-read the article about Windows Live Mail and from 30th June coming Live mail will no longer work through Outlook.com . Older Hotmail addresses may no longer work as it is also involved with Outlook.com which some people use to log into the web mail services. This will be interesting on the 30th as many people will not know until it happens.

Microsofts reasoning is that it is trying to get Outlook to sync. across a range of different devices and as a result some users have been quietly upgraded to conform to a new version of the Web mail service. Microsofts advice is if it happens then upgrade? Win 7 users will be affected from what I read. What they say is that Win 8.1 and Win 10 will be OK. It will not support POP3 only IMAP. This is going to be a SNAFU of huge proportions as emails go down.

This from page 60 of the Computer Active dtd 8-21 June issue 477. Worth reading.

Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Clive,

This may be of interest **LINK**

MichaelG.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

What a bummer, i'm on Win 7 but I will see how it goes. Just another way to get the hoy poloy to upgrade I think. Crafty Gxts.

Clive

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