Traditional fly press uses

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

A traditional bench top fly press has come up for sale locally which has caught my eye. A fly press has been on my ‘nice to have’ list for a while.

However I want to do my homework beforehand so heres the queries to the folk on here:

• Did they predate the modern day generic hydraulic presses? I.e. they perform the same tasks for us hobbyists?
• Is it equally good at forming curves and sharp folds?
• Are decent quality punch and dies readily available to buy for hole punching?

Any advice gratefully received.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

If you have the space !

Good for pushing bearing in/out.  Making slots.  Folding. Make up a shearing tool.  make your own punch and dies as they are not cheap to buy.  Setting rivets, the list goes on.

Bob

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

You may be lucky and find a secondhand bolster, but tooling will almost certainly have to be home made. However, a flypress has it’s uses. For instance closing 3/16″ steel rivets:

Home made riveting dollies:

Formed rivet heads:

Bigger wheels, same size rivets and more home made rivet dollies:

Home made press tools (CNC milled) for hot forming rear wheel strakes:

Formed strakes are a good fit on the rear wheel rim:

I’ve also used my flypress for experimenting with 3D printed press tooling, which sort of worked. For work I have made tooling in gauge plate for stamping out custom slots in brass sheet to hold clip-in connectors. The flypress can also be used to hold the rivet dolly for awkward riveting:

My flypress is #3, what size are you looking at? To summarise I’d say go for a flypress!

Julie

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve had two different ones at various times. I rarely found a use for them and sold them on. Even though both were quite small they take up a lot of room to operate. Many years ago I had a job where I had to use a somewhat larger one and you had to give it a really good swing to get it to work well. If I found I really needed a small manual press then I’d probably buy  Ratchet Arbour Press, something like this:

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The fundamental difference between a fly press and a hydraulic press is that a fly press “bonks” ie applies percussive load whilst an hydraulic press squeezes.

As has been said above there is a huge overlap in applications, although the methods of getting to the same place may differ, but ultimately a hydraulic press delivers  more controllable squeeze fore whilst a fly press delivers a much sharper, faster, thump.

I built me an inexpensive hydraulic press using a bottle jack as the majority of my needs were squeeze, not thump, extracting bearings, separating fits et al. For the odd times when a flypress would have been the one true way I’ve managed workarounds. Often inelegant.

Clive

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

A friend uses one, along with dies made from wood, metal and resin, to press reproduction car parts. They are a mix of curves, domes and folds.

I used one to stamp veins into copper leaves for sculpture.

James

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

As Clive says a fly press applies force at high speed. The inertia in the cross bar, handle and counter weight produces most of the force. Used mainly for punching and forming. I’ve used one “professionally” for putting flanged lightening holes in aircraft parts. In aluminium you could punch and flange with a single strike. We also used it on titanium. That was a two stage operation. Only a couple of people could punch the 4″ holes (not me). You could see the frame of the massive old “war finish” press flexing. Presumably it was ductile cast iron. Keeping the thread lubricated makes a big difference.

You can use them slowly and they still apply a lot of force so a fly press is more universal than a lever or rack press.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

You tend to get more throat space to work with on a fly press rather than a hydraulic press but you do need a very stable bench. One of the big ones I used in the past was on a welded steel frame and you had to bar it back in position every so often as it used to walk about.
One distinct advantage is settable depth using the collar.

If you want to get really fancy press tool holders are available for very little money. This was eBay at £50

Obviously you have to create your own punch/die sets but they ensure alignment which you don’t get from the press itself. It’s OK if you just want to squeeze rivets or form a bend but any sort of punch or shear needs to be better controlled than you can expect from the press itself.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I’ve a No, 2, a No. 3 Bar one, and a No. 4 one, which I use mostly. The biggest one that I have used was a No. 6 one. I made my own Vee block and blade for folding sheet metal.

Regards Nick.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

The best example of fly press use I have seen preserved is their use in jewellery making and can be seen in the Jewellery Museum on Vyse Street in Birmingham,  they were used with punches and dies for cutting and forming many “blanks” during the manufacture of jewellery & many varied related items.

It’s an interesting day out if you have the opportunity to visit all the tools and machine are as they were when production ceased and the owners closed the doors.

https://www.birminghammuseums.org.uk/museum-of-the-jewellery-quarter

John

PS just looked on the Web site and it seems its no longer open at the moment — disappointing but it says they are hoping to re0open soon !!

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I “picked up ” a number 5 flypress dumped in a barn a few years ago

It has been through the wars but still works very well It amazes me how anyone can manage to damage or even break these things, but they can and do.

I did not have any real use for it, but it looked like it was seeking a new home, so I gave it one. It did come in useful a few times when all else failed to do a job, so I consider it was money well spent. Such things dont show up very often around these parts.

As others have said, they do take up space and they DO need a solid bench, something better than a Workmate.

[cogdobblerParticipant @cogdobbler]

They are not that great for pressing in bearings due to limited throat clearance and the use of impact rather than carefully controlled steady pressure as on an hydraulic press. And really, the best thing for fittiing bearings is a cheap propane torch to heat the housing and let the bearing “fall” in. Takes up way less space too.

A fly press is best for short production runs punching and bending parts etc. How useful it will be to you depends on what sort of work you do in your workshop. If you have not thought “Gee I wish I had a flypress” a half a dozen times in the past year, it is probably not worth taking up space in a small workshop. Ditto hydraulic press. I have a 20 ton one in my workshop and have not used it for at least 5 years, doing model and vehicle restoration work. But I use the propane torch to fit bearings very regularly and wouldn’t be without it.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I noticed one on ebay locally and bid £50 and got it, two of us managed to lift it into the back of my car. It is a small one with a throat depth of about 6″ and most sellers are reluctant to post them which explained the low price. It fits nicely on a bench at the museum and has come in useful for some small jobs. In production work, they are much faster than other presses but not used much nowerdays. The big ones are quite expensive. I used it with made up tooling to make a special spring for a microscope turret.

We had an arbor press like Vic’s at work, but found it to not have enough power for our needs and gave it to the machine shop fitter and he used it for fitting bearings.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I’m not surprised they are not used commercially. For production they can be darned dangerous. At 16 I had a weekend job banging out relay base clips. Essentially punching the hole through the middle. Smallish press and a sit down job. Fit the blank in the press tool and swing the handle. As soon as the press started to open again fingers in and flick the component on the heap. Get the next blank in the tool with the right hand whilst the press handle returns to the left hand which immediately swings the press shut again. Total cycle time must have been around 4 sec which is not much time to get your fingers out of the way.

Being purely a hand press guarding and interlocking is nigh on impossible and you just have to rely on the operator. Not really a goer in modern times.

Coupled with the difficulty of getting anyone to expend the manual energy required to operate the bigger presses I would say they are not used at all for production except probably in India.

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The thump rather than squeeze approach also means the arbor or hydraulic press likely to be safer for broaching, though you can make a fly-press squeeze by removing the weights and using simple strength to operate it with some sensitivity.

My fly-press is perhaps the smallest type and has been “neutered”, but proved itself for making a couple of simple joggles in a steel strip – for a simple clevis – much more difficult to make otherwise.

I will get round to making a pair of new weights for it, one day!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

A friend had a big one at work, mainly for sheet metal work, cases and thermionic valve chassis.  Brilliant for punching, hard to imagine it being good at squeezing, or anything remotely delicate.   It was demonstrated putting louvres into a 16swg steel plate, very like this one.   16 at a time, wallop!

Looked like Julie Ann’s example, except much bigger.  Gawd knows how much it weighed, and it took up about 6′ x 6′ floor space.   Nigel suggests removing the weights – not easy on this monster, a 9″ cast-iron ball, about 8′ above floor level.   I’ve always wanted one, bigger the better, which is completely daft…

Dave

[renardiere7Participant @renardiere7]

Neutered!  That’s hilarious. As a vet I’ve removed balls from many different species but a fly press is still on the to do list. Actually I’ve always fancied a fly press but goodness knows where I could fit it in the workshop.

[Beardy MikeParticipant @beardymike]

I’ve got a deep throat number 2, which I’ve used for various things. You very much can get feel and control, you’re just limited to substantially less than the full rated force. There’s quite a lot of mechanical advantage if you gently set the tool on the work then tug on the handle. Removing the weights isn’t necessary, but would reduce the effort required if you were doing production work.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I first saw Fly press’s on a factory visit from school, and all of them were being operated by young ladies, who were using them very confidently. This was back in the Sixties.

Regards Nick.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

I had a “Norton No 5” years ago, it was a case of “if you don’t take the scrap man will”.   Never used it and a few years later I tried to sell it, didn’t sell, so went to the scrap man.

They do take up a lot of space, need a substantial stand and the tooling can be quite costly.   I have used them in my job.  Good for when something needs a “wack”, the louvre example is a good one.  Then, some years later, developed tooling for punching tensile test specimens from sheet materials.   Non-ferrous was easy, ferrous required some strength.  Most difficult was maraging steel, we were fortunate in having a big strong fella in the laboratory, who could put his weight/strength into blanking out these super strong steels.

As has been said, no good for work that needs finesse,  a hydraulic press a much more useful tool in the home workshop.

 

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

My first job was working on one of these monsters, a Norton, could have been a No 6, punching out parts for storage heaters.

Great way to get warm on a cold morning since the “heating” in the factory was somewhat lacking, to put it mildly ! And it,s true, many of these things were operated by 16 year old kids, with no guards of any kind fitted. Difficult to fit guards anyway, just be careful and count your fingers at the end of each day. !

Ah, happy days !

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