Tom Senior suds pump

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Dismantled mine. (I have read that the whole TS suds system is less than perfect …)

Found a PO had left out the 'spring' that I assume exerted slight pressure on the two vanes.

They had removed all the piping, tap, etc. but left the belt on the pump!

Can anyone tell me what the spring is/was,dimensions, so that I might replace it ?

Thanks.

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 06/02/2018 11:36:03

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 06/02/2018 11:36:58

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

[Tractor manParticipant @tractorman]

Nigel. I cleaned out the suds tank and rebuilt the pump but never use it as I usually work in aluminium brass or cast iron so be real need.
I will have a look back through my notes to see what I wrote about the pump.
Best regards Mick

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Thanks again Mick.

I'm itching to access my suds tank (sad!) and as well as cleaning it out, I wonder if I might find either the 'missing' grubscrew from the cone pulley oiler tube or the 'missing' head off the locking pin for the gear selector ?

They are both AWOL.

I'm slowly learning how TS put them together.

And learning that using "grubscrew location/locking" fails when attacked by gorillas.

Both the l/h handwheel and the 'lockstop lever' have been strained and moved around their shafts.

[norman royds 2Participant @normanroyds2]

I nigel it very dirty job if it was like mine it was full of black sludge horrible mine came from a school i dont think it ever been cleaned regards norm

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Possible sources of small coil springs:

The spring from Schrader tyre valves, (if the longer variety with a spring are still available – commercial vehicle tyre depots?)

The spring from inside defunct retractable ball pens. (They seem to come in more than one size / strength)

(As an Apprentice, I found that the suds pump and sump were rarely, if ever, cleaned, but greatly benefitted from being clean)

Hopefully, if you can determine the dimensions / threads, you can make replacements for some of the missing parts. You may even be able to improve on the original design, having seen the shortcomings of the originals.

On my F E lathe, there is the odd location that has been improved by a deeper indentation for the locating / securing grubscrew. Fortunately, I did not have to remove any galling / burrs where the two parts had damaged each other as they slipped.

Howard

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Nigel,

Have you got any pictures of your pump you can post? I have an Elliott Omnimill which I suspect may have a similar pump. I have not as yet taken mine apart yet but it definitely needs some tlc as whatever bearing it has (I suspect a plain bush) has a lot of wear in it. I was thinking about putting a small independent electric driven pump in instead but having looked at the prices I am having second thoughts!

Paul.

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Norman. I am 100% certain it WILL be a dirty job – probably has never been done.

Howard. Being a bit of a hoarder I already have some old Schrader valves/caps etc. ( I moved the tub today) … but I noticed there are no 'indents' on the back face of the vanes so what would locate the spring or springs ? Blocks of plastic possibly ? – Indentation for handwheel grubscrew is 'on the list' !

Paul. I can take a picture – but whether I can post it successfully is another matter! I'll have a go.

I read somewhere that cheap (almost certainly Chinese) pond pumps will work as suds pumps.

I also have a couple of spare BMW washer bottle pumps so might try one of those.

Was thinking about rigging one up for my Cardiff/Elliott lathe.

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 07/02/2018 23:48:48

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 07/02/2018 23:50:55

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 07/02/2018 23:51:46

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Confirmed – small Chinese 220-240V fish tank and pond pumps work as suds pumps. Had one on my Boxford lathe for a few years now. Cost less than a fiver.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Perhaps it may rely on centrifugal force to get the blades to fling outwards?

Clive

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Probably not fast enough ?

Just found in the parts list >> "185 Spring for above"

"Above" being "184 Rotor blades".

 

 

Edited By Nigel Brown 7 on 08/02/2018 23:16:54

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Nigel,

Not to worry on the picture, I am leaning towards not using the original pump as the main spindle is reversible (from the motor) for the feed when using the vertical head on the Omnimill so you have to keep crossing and uncrossing the belt for the pump each time you change direction! Hadn't thought of that before!

Has anyone any experience of using a cheap pond type submersible pump with neat cutting oil? I am curious to know if the oil will 'dissolve' or degrade the plastic housing. Probably fine for soluble oil but not sure about neat oil!

Paul.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

No experience, but I doubt the cheapo pond pumps I've seen would handle oil, or the viscosity of neat oil.

Posted by Paul Kemp on 09/02/2018 13:17:21:

Nigel,

Not to worry on the picture, I am leaning towards not using the original pump as the main spindle is reversible (from the motor) for the feed when using the vertical head on the Omnimill so you have to keep crossing and uncrossing the belt for the pump each time you change direction! Hadn't thought of that before!

Has anyone any experience of using a cheap pond type submersible pump with neat cutting oil? I am curious to know if the oil will 'dissolve' or degrade the plastic housing. Probably fine for soluble oil but not sure about neat oil!

Paul.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ceiling mounted air conditioners have a small draining pump that empties the condensation tray when the float switch is lifted, I wonder if it would pump suds?

Clive

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Paul.

Good to hear I won't have to sort and post a pic. !

By coincidence a 'rebuildable' TS pump has just been put on fleabay with pics.

[Tractor manParticipant @tractorman]

Nigel. In my piece on the Tom senior I noted the vanes of the pump were held in contact with the walls by a thin leaf spring. I made a new spring from 10 thou feeler strip. The pump worked fine but as I said I don't use mine with coolant so the pump remains unused.

[Nigel Brown 7Participant @nigelbrown7]

Sorry for very late reply.

Might well try that.

Thanks

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

Another late reply….

I have a submersible Chinese pond pump running in soluble oil on my Victoria U1 mill. Seems ok so far (its been under the suds mix for about 3 months). The pump is 12 volt and is only the size of a matchbox but it is lifting coolant about a metre and is pumping a substantial flow out through twin flexible nozzles. I did make up a small mesh filter to stop it from trying to ingest swarf etc. If it keeps going its a cheap solution to pumping coolant as it only cost £6.

I bought the pair of flexible outlet coolant pipes from ebay (complete with shut off valves) for under £2 and hooked them up to a 'T' piece so that I can flood both sides of a cutter at once. The 'T' piece is mounted on an 'L' shaped bracket which has 2 magnets attached to it (£4 from ebay). With the magnets the coolant outlet can be positioned anywhere on the table, the vice, the overarm or the vertical head, or even the part being machined – whatever suits the job in hand.

Martin

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