Shipping to the EU – beware!

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Jersey looks after is own waters as far as fishing rights, all they want is pretty much how it was and a mechanism to stop any extra french boats who used to fish elsewhere.

The current score is 2 gunboats each for some daft reason

Edited By Dave Halford on 06/05/2021 12:26:25

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Consider that there are 160 ish countries outside the EU I wonder if they all have the same problems? Maybe we are being given the “special” treatment.

Mike

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by Gerard O'Toole on 06/05/2021 10:26:23:

Why would the Italian and Austrian customers expect to reclaim the VAT?

If they are selling the product on they reclaim on the purchase and only pay vat on their own markup on the due date. Its an offset to reduce the total vat payable

It's not your business to ask whether a buyer is the final link in the supply chain

Edited By Ady1 on 06/05/2021 14:23:40

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

So, regarding fishing, the Norwegians choose to not give us rights to fish in their territorial waters, because we wouldn't come to an agreement with them sharing ours. Ane we are equally surprised that the French, having long enjoyed fishing in areas between us and them, and now finding themselves (or maybe some them) shut out.

I wait with interest to see what the value of fish against the cost of running gunboats against our neighbours will turn out to be.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mike Poole on 06/05/2021 12:36:46:

Consider that there are 160 ish countries outside the EU I wonder if they all have the same problems? Maybe we are being given the “special” treatment.

Mike

'Special treatment' only in so far as leaving the EU terminated an existing arrangement. The UK's relationship with Europe has changed, Europe's relationship with the rest of the world hasn't.

We are catching trade flak for another reason. Leaving the EU also changed the UK's trade relationships with the rest of world. These relationships changed because UK trade was covered by their deal with the EU. As we are no longer a member, it's all change!

Now the UK has left the EU, new trade deals are required with most of the world, the hope being Brexit has freed the UK to do a better job than Brussels. It's our problem now and there will be a degree of turbulence until all the new arrangements are sorted out. Not complete chaos because World Trade Organisation rules apply, but these certainly aren't better than Brussels. Time will tell.

In negotiating fresh deals it should be no surprise to find prospective partners using whatever leverage they can to get what they want. We will lean on them and they will pressure us. "It's not personal, it's business."

I've no idea how this will turn out or how long it will take. January's trade figures were terrifyingly bad but there's been something of a recovery, and today the Bank England predicted the UK economy will grow 7% this year, which is good news. What's actually happening is befogged by Covid. It's very confusing. Anyone caught in the storm like Fizzy has my full sympathy.

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I understand the situation and to get things running smoothly again will take work from both sides, the suspicion is that one side is not working to the same goal and possibly actively undermining the situation. Many businesses are walking away from the hassle, some maybe for ever and some until things are sorted out. We won’t see the wood for the trees until the covid situation is under control all over the world. I recently bought some fairly low value items from the USA which near doubled in price with the various charges but none were a surprise and the process worked as expected, it shouldn’t be that hard to get things working smoothly and transparently but it will take both sides to make the effort.

Mike

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Mike Poole on 06/05/2021 16:07:24:

I understand the situation and to get things running smoothly again will take work from both sides, the suspicion is that one side is not working to the same goal and possibly actively undermining the situation. Many businesses are walking away from the hassle, some maybe for ever and some until things are sorted out. We won’t see the wood for the trees until the covid situation is under control all over the world. I recently bought some fairly low value items from the USA which near doubled in price with the various charges but none were a surprise and the process worked as expected, it shouldn’t be that hard to get things working smoothly and transparently but it will take both sides to make the effort.

Mike

Mike

What charges have changed when importing goods from the USA ?
There has always been the risk of getting charged import duty and VAT+collection charge.

Emgee

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

In a free market you simply trade, goods flow

In a market restricted by politicians and lawyers you need "Trade Deals" or nothing moves

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Posted by Mike Poole on 06/05/2021 16:07:24:

I understand the situation and to get things running smoothly again will take work from both sides, the suspicion is that one side is not working to the same goal and possibly actively undermining the situation. Many businesses are walking away from the hassle, some maybe for ever and some until things are sorted out. We won’t see the wood for the trees until the covid situation is under control all over the world. I recently bought some fairly low value items from the USA which near doubled in price with the various charges but none were a surprise and the process worked as expected, it shouldn’t be that hard to get things working smoothly and transparently but it will take both sides to make the effort.

Mike

BBC reporting that the EU Commission are saying that the new conditions imposed by Jersey are in breech of the Brexit deal. I assume they will begin the legal process .which is probably better than having embargos etc.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Samsaranda on 06/05/2021 10:20:55:

A few years ago I mailed a couple of castings to myself, in the UK, from Australia, had been there on holiday and the castings would have put my baggage seriously overweight. Don’t ask why I bought castings in Australia, the wife gave me enough grief over it. The castings arrived at the Gatwick freight handling centre and couldn’t be released until I had paid the admin fees and VAT on the items, I was not best pleased having to pay VAT on my own possessions.

Seems to me the only thing different between you buying something in Aus and having them ship it, and buying something in Aus and shipping it yourself is the person putting it in the box. What reasoning do you use that makes it different with regards to import charges?

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Damm I just ordered something from Canada, I wonder what they will shaft me for?

Tony

[Graham TitmanParticipant @grahamtitman81812]

I have just been looking for fish food which has become difficult to get in 200gram tubs he is a large fish.

On the auction site from usa 25$ plus 134$ postage i finally tracked some down for £12-49 including postage.

[VicParticipant @vic]

luckily eBay seems to be working ok, at least with stuff from the Far East. In fact so far stuff seems to be arriving a bit quicker. Selling stuff to the EU is a problem if they’re being silly. It works both ways though, I wonder how much trade they will lose. I must admit I wouldn’t want stuff from Italy to be affected as I’m partial to some of their wine and food products!

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I'm buying more English, Australian & New Zealand wine.

Tony

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Emgee on 06/05/2021 16:29:56:

Posted by Mike Poole on 06/05/2021 16:07:24:

I understand the situation and to get things running smoothly again will take work from both sides, the suspicion is that one side is not working to the same goal and possibly actively undermining the situation. Many businesses are walking away from the hassle, some maybe for ever and some until things are sorted out. We won’t see the wood for the trees until the covid situation is under control all over the world. I recently bought some fairly low value items from the USA which near doubled in price with the various charges but none were a surprise and the process worked as expected, it shouldn’t be that hard to get things working smoothly and transparently but it will take both sides to make the effort.

Mike

Mike

What charges have changed when importing goods from the USA ?
There has always been the risk of getting charged import duty and VAT+collection charge.

Emgee

I think the difference is that we now trade as the UK rather than as a member of the EU unless we had a side deal with the USA.

Mike

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

See what Malcom Turnbull (ex Aussie Prime Minister) has to say about dealing with the EU!!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by mgnbuk on 06/05/2021 11:00:51:

W……………

At work we send 4 or 5 full truck loads of product to Poland monthly + another to Norway & that continues largely as before – more paperwork up front, but otherwise no delays.

Nigel B.

If a single firm regularly sends a truck load of its products, then it's one lot of paperwork, which can be cut and pasted next time ad infinitum. DHL will have hundreds of packages from hundreds of senders who are probably doing it infrequently, so it's a colossal amount of paperwork

I note Meadows and Passmore has just given up the ghost, citing Brexit difficulties as part of the reason. As for me, must progress my Irish passport application

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/05/2021 12:03:16:

Posted by Pete. on 06/05/2021 00:52:23:

… given there have been threats from France aka "our friends in Europe" to cut off electricity to Jersey in retaliation for no more fishing in our waters, would it really surprise you if these same people were being deliberately vindictive?

Not in the slightest. This is entirely predictable. President de Gaulle once justified his difficult international relationships by explaining 'Countries don't have friends, countries have interests'. He's right!

The UK left the EU to pursue an independent economic future and are now are free to proceed in the UK's best interest. Great idea, but double edged! The EU as a whole, and all the individual member nations, are also free to pursue their interests. After Brexit they have no obligation to the UK. Potentially everything is up for grabs, and everything can be renegotiated.

Leaving the EU was the easy bit; the hard part is what happens next. Ideally, everyone benefits quickly from marvellous trade-deals, more likely we get poorer during transition whilst a mass of difficult minor disputes are disentangled, and in the worst case violence erupts.

State sponsored violence is why Jersey is currently 'ours', whatever 'ours' means! Jersey is 120 miles from the UK and only 14 miles from Normandy. It's the only part of Normandy retained by the royal famil after King John's military campaign against Philip II failed 1204. (King John is the baddy in both Robin Hood and the Magna Carta).

Jersey was successfully defended against French invasions in 1406 and 1791, but not against the Germans in 1940. The latter only left after Germany as a whole surrendered in 1945. Jersey isn't technically part of the United Kingdom and has the power of self-determination. At the moment 32.7% of the population are British.

Walk a mile in the other guys shoes! If you were a French fisherman, how sympathetic would you be to the idea the sea around Jersey is British, rather than the Normandy coastline being French? And if you were a French politician, how much would you upset French voters by supporting UK government rather than French fishermen? How does it play elsewhere around the world? Germany is unlikely to be concerned about fish, but in the event of a dispute between the UK and an EU member, they will support the EU. Who would the Americans support given their concern about the Irish Border? Some sort of give and take deal has to be negotiated, ideally before spilt blood makes the situation really emotional.

We live in interesting times!

Dave

It’s not really about national interests, it's about the French postal system possibly discriminating against people based on where they live, I'm sure you wouldn't support Royal Mail returning post to France without even making an attempt to deliver it?

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Cant even get it into first gear – stuck in neutral! Having played email tennis with someone at UPS customer services (no names on their emails) and asking what/why/when etc they firstly explained that they could do nothing without the shipping number….that would be the line in big bold green letters which starts with Shipping Number (I kid you not). They then referd me to their request 16th March asking for "Documents". No emails from them whatsoever in March, so I asks What document". No answer to this, nor indeed to any of the specific questions I asked. Instead a few lines of waffle refering to me paying a return shipping fee. What Return shipping fee? Ive been asked to pay an Import Tax? Finally customer services have suggested I ring a department to sort it out…..you guessed it, Customer ruddy services! They even supplied a number to call, the very same number that I tried every day last week, waited what must have amounted to several hours on hold but no one ever answers. Do you thing they are trying to fob me off! I have requested a meeting with my MP to discuss this issue – not holding my breath!

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

You could try this contact:

**LINK**

He is listed as President of UPS UK operations.

I don’t suppose you would get a sensible response but it might be worth a go.

Stuart

Update – it may be that he has been replaced https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ups-leadership-changes-europe-lou-rivieccio. 

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 07/05/2021 13:55:21

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 07/05/2021 14:05:09

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete. on 06/05/2021 21:58:12:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/05/2021 12:03:16:

Posted by Pete. on 06/05/2021 00:52:23:

… given there have been threats from France aka "our friends in Europe" to cut off electricity to Jersey in retaliation for no more fishing in our waters, would it really surprise you if these same people were being deliberately vindictive?

Not in the slightest. This is entirely predictable. …

We live in interesting times!

Dave

Pete's Comment:

It’s not really about national interests, it's about the French postal system possibly discriminating against people based on where they live, I'm sure you wouldn't support Royal Mail returning post to France without even making an attempt to deliver it?

Some confusion here Pete, your post was about Fishery and Jersey, not postal systems! And Fizzy's problem isn't with the French postal system – he's using couriers.

Root cause is change triggered by leaving the European Union. Previously there wasn't a border, now there is. The devil is in the detail.

Having a border means duty, tariffs, taxes, handling charges, passports, certificates and other complications. Ideally these are minimised by agreement but the terms and conditions are still being renegotiated. Thus the new border control system is a work in progress and there are many grey areas.

At the moment it's easy to get the paperwork wrong because it's not obvious exactly what's needed yet. In the event it's wrong the easiest thing is to return the goods because incorrect paperwork means someone is out of pocket or illegal goods might pass the frontier.

The gov.uk website doesn't provide much practical help and I don't suppose the EU equivalent does either. Officialdom can't answer detailed questions because the UK/EU trade deal is still being negotiated, and that's up to the politicians. It's all about national interest.

Not clear what progress is being made. I hope the delays and confusion are temporary. For all I know the drain was unblocked yesterday. Time will tell. The sooner Fizzy reports successful deliveries the better.

Dave

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Dave, I mentioned fishing for no other reason than pointing out the French are angry currently, more so than usual.

As previously said, people on this forum have had no border troubles getting parcels from Germany, maybe I misunderstood Fizzy's originally post, but it said it made it to France, so I assumed the border isn't the problem as it made it past the border, they told him the recipient refused delivery? But his customer says this didn't happen?

If I've misunderstood anything please point it out, it's more than possible

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

Posted by Pete. on 07/05/2021 15:24:25:

As previously said, people on this forum have had no border troubles getting parcels from Germany,

Getting parcels from the EU (Germany) is at the moment no problem for the UK since it is not ready for and has not yet implemented the new customs regulations. The EU was ready for them januari first but the UK not. As far as I know the new regulations should be in place this July but is now delayed for a year. Now I can make all kind of remarks about Brexit but this forum is not the place for it. Niko.

Edited By speelwerk on 07/05/2021 15:43:02

Edited By speelwerk on 07/05/2021 15:54:14

[Anonymous]

Posted by Mike Poole on 06/05/2021 12:36:46:

Consider that there are 160 ish countries outside the EU I wonder if they all have the same problems? Maybe we are being given the “special” treatment.

5 years or so ago, the situation here (Canada) was that when ordering from out of the country Canadian taxes were not charged, Canada itself being considered responsible for collecting its own taxes.

That the EU countries collected each others' taxes was an EU thing that was part of their agreement but did not extend outside the EU.

It's mostly the same now but things have changed here slightly in that certain purchases in the US now attract Canadian taxes at source and the list is growing. It looks (to me) that, ultimately, taxes for destination countries will be collected at source (in the shipping country) for all countries that have signed up. Which will be most countries.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by speelwerk on 07/05/2021 15:41:55:

Posted by Pete. on 07/05/2021 15:24:25:

As previously said, people on this forum have had no border troubles getting parcels from Germany,

Getting parcels from the EU (Germany) is at the moment no problem for the UK since it is not ready for and has not yet implemented the new customs regulations. The EU was ready for them januari first but the UK not. As far as I know the new regulations should be in place this July but is now delayed for a year. Now I can make all kind of remarks about Brexit but this forum is not the place for it. Niko.

Edited By speelwerk on 07/05/2021 15:43:02

Edited By speelwerk on 07/05/2021 15:54:14

You sound like you're more up to speed than me on the new rules, is telling people delivery of their parcel has been attempted, when in reality it hasn't, part of the new rules?

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