Rivet sets & snaps

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

Can anyone please point me in the direction of the correct dimensions for the hole in first stage rivet setting tooling as opposed to the domed snap tool for finishing rivets; and the amount of rivet projection required for tidy doming ..

I am having great trouble getting decent finished domes and I think its beacuse I am

A not getting the correct amount of material projecting and

B not using suitable setting tools.

Many thanks

Brian K.

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

Brian the form and size of the dome that you want to create is dictated by the grip length, the final closed length between heads, and the diameter of the rivet itself. The easiest way to get the right size is to refer to copy of Machinery's handbook or similar tome which will have tables to help. You may need to extrapolate and then experiment to get the final size right.

[HomeUseParticipant @homeuse]

Hi this site may help – I have always found it produces good domes – **LINK**

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Teh hole in the set is not that important, just a bit bigger than the rivit shank so something like 3.3mm on an 1/8" rivit, 4.8mm on 3/16" and so on.

The amount projecting is slightly affected buy your snap as they do vary a bit but the correct projection for imperial snap head rivits is 1.429xD, treat this as a starting point and do a few tests in a scrap of known thickness and then adjust the lengths to sue whatever thicknesses of material are being joined

Sapphire Have a useful table of sizes for all their rivits

[alan-lloydParticipant @alan-lloyd]

AHi Brian, invest in an arrand rivet shortner, this cuts the rivets off straight, un like a pair of pliers. You can then experiment with the head length because you have to make spacers to suit each dia, so every one you do in future will be the same. marvelous tool. Regards Alan.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The OP may be looking at some classic texts which show, after closing, an upsetting tool with a limitted depth hole being used to cause the trunk of the rivet to swell prior to being domed out with a shaped snap. Trouble is it doesn't work with cold rivets as they are too hard to deform like that. (Similar to a blacksmith 'upsetting' a bar by hammering the end not the side to cause a swelling at the part that has been heated)

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Brian Kerens on 07/01/2013 11:33:59:

Can anyone please point me in the direction of the correct dimensions for the hole in first stage rivet setting tooling as opposed to the domed snap tool for finishing rivets; and the amount of rivet projection required for tidy doming ..

I am having great trouble getting decent finished domes………………..

Many thanks

Brian K.

Hi Brian,

are you rough forming the dome with a ball peen hammer before using the snap?

Regards

Terry

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

The Arrand tool is great will crop anything

Bob

[HomeUseParticipant @homeuse]

Hi – can anyone give me a link ore details of this Arrand tool – seems i must have missed it

[Robert DoddsParticipant @robertdodds43397]

Home use,

Springbok put some pics of his and phone details to Arrand on this forum under "Rivet Set Dimensions" just 12 months back.

Bob D

[HomeUseParticipant @homeuse]

Thanks Bob D – will look up details.

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

Thanks all for the responses Gents. I have been using the 1.5/1.6 dimension for length, and annealing rivets before using them.

– Bazyle – very interested in your comment that the initial setting process isnt viable. Jason B am I right in assuming you Do use the setting process and does it work for you?

Terryd – I use ball peen for csk finish on rivets but hadn't considered it for RH. I see the logic and if I understand it you use the snap just to form the final dome shape rather than the whole rivet closing process.

Thanks again all

B K

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Brian,

the standard method for domed rivets is to set the joint, form the dome with the ball peen and then final finish is with the domed set. If you try to shape the rivet solely with the set the rivet will bend and produce a very poor finish. Soft iron rivets should need no annealing.

I have always used the 1.6 x dia for the dome allowance plus the required length, this gave good results. There was a good article which included advice for rivetting just a couple of years ago. I will look out the reference.

Best regards

Terry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Brian, I use the set to push the layers together, this does not start to compress the rivit and then unlike Terry I go straight at it with the rivit snap and a few blows are all that is needed.

The ball pein is ok if you are working with a rivit in a nice flat accessible position but once you have formed a couple of hundred rivits on traction engine wheels where you can't get in with the hammer you soon get the knack of only using a snap. The other risk of using teh ball pein is that if you take a lot of little taps at the rivit you can start to work harden the end which makes it harder to form the final snap.

I have seen the staged formers used on cold rivits with good results usually in conjunction with a jig to hole the formers upright and a hydralic press. Not really needed on anything below 3/16" though. I'll see if I can find some pictures, the ones I know of are only viewable if you donate to teh particular forum.

I also cut mine with either mini bolt croppers or side cutters

 

Couple of bits of riviting here and here

Edited By JasonB on 09/01/2013 13:20:44

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just looked for the phoyo but they will not be available, If anyone has Edward George's (Martin Wallis in ME) book he has a couple of pages detailing forming the rivit in 4 stages

Set

Flat ended tool to inittialy spread the rivit

Cone ended tool to get a good spread at the bottom

Snap to form teh final snap head

This is what he used on his 1/2 scale Fowler with just a club hammer and a pair of ear defenders.

Talking of riviting people may find some pics from the restoration of a portable of interest though unfortunately the riviting method may not suite the average home workshop.

**LINK**

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Arrand

The Forge

Knossington Nr Oakham
LE15 8LN
0116454566
I bought mine in 2006
I not only use it for cropping rivets but bolts wire you name it.
Have a look at my my photos near the bottom you wil see a pic of it I took for someone else.
They did not have a web site at the time but that may have changed
Part Number 67-100

Bob

[Author]

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