Political views within the forums

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by XD 351 on 14/07/2018 11:50:15:

…

My question is what do these threads have to do with model engineering and why were they allowed to be created ?

Motorcycles – except model onesAirplanes -except model ones
Household electrical work
Anything to do with firearms
Astrology
People wanting to know what is wrong with their car
People who are having issues with thier internet connection
Etc etc .

…

'Model Engineering' is a clever title for our hobby because it covers so much ground.

Model can mean:

• 'a three-dimensional representation of a person or thing or of a proposed structure, typically on a smaller scale than the original' or
• 'a person or thing regarded as an excellent example of a specified quality'.

Engineering also has two definitions:

• The branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures, or
• The action of working artfully to bring something about.

Within those permutations pretty much anything goes.

'Engineer' is even more vague. In the USA it includes locomotive drivers. No better in the UK, almost any technical job from 'bloke with tape measure' to Isambard Kingdom Brunel can be an 'Engineer'. Not easy to define what a real engineer is. The professional associations insist on a degree level qualification involving maths. I'm not so sure, because really good engineers are creative. To me, it's the ability to design rather than copy or apply rules of thumb that sets the engineer apart from the artisan. (Nothing wrong with artisans, they're the ones who build, use and maintain technology, which requires a different skill set.)

The only item on XD351's list I would reject is Astrology. Even then I suspect it's a typo – Astronomy is definitely legitimate in my book.

Once the door is opened on creativity, another group of subjects become valid. I'm usually content with functional brutalism. Others find joy in doing a good job mending and restoring things. Hats off to crafts-persons making aesthetically pleasing items like clocks, pens, miniatures, well-made tools and other objects of desire.

Finally, the social and educational aspect of the hobby. Understanding what the other guy is up to, and how he does it, can be useful. Buying new vs second-hand, identifying materials, problem solving, separating fact from opinion, risk management,  etc. Above all, none of it should be dull. Ideally all posts should end with a joke. Shame I don't know any…

Dave

 

PS Definitions from the Oxford Living Dictionary

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2018 10:06:38

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

On the subject of defining what is an engineer.

If a machine stops working for no apparent reason –

An apprentice knows you need to hit it with a hammer.

A tradesman knows where to hit it

An engineer knows why you need to hit it.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2018 10:00:..

'Engineer' is even more vague. …

.

As it's Sunday morning, and I don't think I've yet managed to irritate Jason …

May I mention that 'engineer' is even broader than you list ?

MichaelG.

.

ferinstance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_engineering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(political_science)

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/07/2018 10:19:37

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by pgk pgk on 15/07/2018 09:25:53:

Posted by JasonB on 14/07/2018 15:09:21:

You also need to bear in mind we have an international membership and some contries have different views to what can be done in the home workshop. For example one equivalent to Warco have a range of "gunsmith" lathes! Also home blade smithing has a large following even with it's own TV programs.

Suprisingly my wife enjoys that TV show – mostly the turning of a hunk of old metal into a shiney object. She now even appreciates my wandering into the shed with a bit of rusty hot roll and coming back with a finished item ( so long as it looks nice – function is irrelevant to her)

pgk

My daughter likes it too. (The programme is 'Forged in Fire', currently showing on Freeview Blaze in the UK.)

It has quite a following:

John Gomes liked the show. He liked it so much that he decided to forge a sword in his own backyard. It took firefighters the better part of six hours to quell a fire caused by his attempt. The fire burned through almost 30 buildings, leaving as many people displaced in Cohoes, New York.

Gomes' public defender said "this is just a terrible, unfortunate accident, but it's not a crime." Still, he was charged with fourth degree arson and reckless endangerment. The lesson here? Don't try this at home.

I was surprised that the weapons they make appear to be legal in the USA. Seems they're not. At the end of each programme the knives & swords are surrendered. For legal reasons they're classified as film props and they aren't street legal.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And with one of the Judges catch phrases being "It will Kill" you wonder why it is allowed to be screened over here? Some of what they produce on the show makes a Zombie knife look like it was meant for butter. Look on the bright side the postal ban may bring a few more people into metal working as the last time I look it was OK to post an anvil and big hammer!

There was also the one a couple of years ago on the gunsmiths called American Guns that showed quite a bit of the machining and engraving going on that was quite interestingh, I think the boss is now doing time for tax evasion.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I remember that show too and its predecessor red jacket ( boss is also behind bars but for a different reason )which was more like a spin off of american chopper .

[Ron ColvinParticipant @roncolvin83430]

"Model Engineering' is a clever title for our hobby because it covers so much ground."

It has to be, if it did not, it would mean that circulation numbers of our favourite magazines would render then economically unviable.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I'm struggling to find a plausable reason to include the link to this video I saw on TV recently, but I suppose from politics comes all the health & safety laws… or not.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Ron Colvin on 15/07/2018 15:58:15:

"Model Engineering' is a clever title for our hobby because it covers so much ground."

Yes, it means we never read things like 'that's not model engineering' when someone posts parts they've made that aren't for toy trains, or whatever other narrow definition everyone has for their interest.

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

I just read 3 pages of this trying to find any relevance to model engineering – so why is it here?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive India on 16/07/2018 08:34:15:

I just read 3 pages of this trying to find any relevance to model engineering – so why is it here?

.

Think of it as a midden … It's serving to keep the rubbish in one place.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2018 08:51:33

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ron Colvin on 15/07/2018 15:58:15:

"Model Engineering' is a clever title for our hobby because it covers so much ground."

One thing often overlooked in these discussions is that Model Engineer magazine effectively defined the hobby and its scope.

The irony is that for the first fifty years the scope was incredibly broad, with more focus on full size engineering, and the proportion of 'new technology' was far greater.

If Percival Marshall was still editor I suspect he would be encouraging articles about making medical prostheses, robots in the workshop and rechipping car engines as well as organising a 'Design a Cube Sat' competition

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2018 08:51:11:

Posted by Clive India on 16/07/2018 08:34:15:

I just read 3 pages of this trying to find any relevance to model engineering – so why is it here?

.

Think of it as a midden … It's serving to keep the rubbish in one place.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2018 08:51:33

The statistics suggest the people want a midden. Of the current 40 threads, this one is the 8th most read, and is 4th in terms of active contributions.

In my own defence, I did have a go at defining 'Model Engineering'.

Dave

[Anonymous]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2018 08:51:11:

Think of it as a midden … It's serving to keep the rubbish in one place.

Quite a bit of what is posted on the forum falls into that category, not just what is in this thread.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 16/07/2018 09:55:59:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2018 08:51:11:

Think of it as a midden … It's serving to keep the rubbish in one place.

Quite a bit of what is posted on the forum falls into that category, not just what is in this thread.

Andrew

.

… but we live in hope

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Abandon hope, all ye what enter here.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Clive India on 16/07/2018 08:34:15:

I just read 3 pages of this trying to find any relevance to model engineering – so why is it here?

The answer to that is in the title of this topic.

Martin..

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Nothing wrong with a bit of general conversation. If you go into a pub do you only talk about beer? It would be an incredibly boring pub.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The trick i find with threads like this is add just the right comment at the right time that hits a nerve or two and wait for the pot to start boiling – then stir occasionally!

This is almost as good as parliment question time ! Almost that is !

Neil, looking back at my back issues of radio and hobbies and model engineer i see what you mean ! I wonder what caused the subject matter to be narroewd down ? Some may have been legal reasons with the inrush of OHS like matters , some may have been reader preferences ? I know of a local electronics mag i read that is trying to broaden its subject matter with articles about cutting edge technology – not just electronics tech either ! and it seems to be working .

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

When ME mag was started what other magazines were around even though the only option for communication was printed paper? Not much call for car mags, TV listings, soap opera reviews, and a host of other things that now have their own titles. Perhaps there was Which Music Cylinder and Practical Hot Air Ballooning. I think sport and fashion magazines were around.
I think they tried everything in a very fast moving era until a rival or specialist magazine took the lead. Just look recently how the publishers decided a workshop tooling only mag would be a runner. Over the years many other start ups have come and gone too

Edited By Bazyle on 16/07/2018 13:10:22

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by XD 351 on 16/07/2018 13:02:19:

The trick i find with threads like this is add just the right comment at the right time that hits a nerve or two and wait for the pot to start boiling – then stir occasionally! …

You mean like why it isn't necessary to part off with a rear mounted toolpost if you've got a decent parting tool, or why a lathe needs to be 'level' to turn parallel? That sort of thing?

Martin.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Yep ! Or just hang 💩 On myfords ! That usually gets a reaction of biblical proportions !

The electronics mag i mentioned above ran an article a long time ago about this then new 3d printing technology and i sent an email to the editor at the time with a few thoughts on how these could one day be household items and with the correct development of polymers print a lot of diffrent things . He returned my email more or less calling me a loony and a heretic as these things will NEVER be affordable to the household hobbyists and the technology will remain as industrial use only ! guess who is laughing now !

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by XD 351 on 16/07/2018 14:06:02:…..

,,,,He returned my email more or less calling me a loony and a heretic as these things will NEVER be affordable to the household hobbyists and the technology will remain as industrial use only ! guess who is laughing now !

Almost exactly what the head of IBM said about personal computers in the 1970s.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Thomas J. Watson Jr. of I.B.M. is said to have opined in 1943 that, “I think there is a world market for about five computers.”

The Yale Book of Quotations quotes an I.B.M. source that this “… is a misunderstanding of remarks made at I.B.M.’s annual stockholders meeting on April 28, 1953. In referring specifically and only to the I.B.M. 701 Electronic Data Processing Machine … Thomas Watson, Jr., told stockholders that ‘I.B.M. had developed a paper plan for such a machine and took this paper plan across the country to some 20 concerns that we thought could use such a machine. … As a result of our trip, on which we expected to get orders for five machines, we came home with orders for 18.'”

[Author]

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